T O P

Abandoned ‘Star Trek: Voyager’ Finale Ideas Could Have Given the Sendoff It Deserved - The final moments of the two-parter, which turns 20 this week, ends the series on one of the franchise’s most underwhelming and anti-climatic notes.

Abandoned ‘Star Trek: Voyager’ Finale Ideas Could Have Given the Sendoff It Deserved - The final moments of the two-parter, which turns 20 this week, ends the series on one of the franchise’s most underwhelming and anti-climatic notes.

kaycaps

I watched Voyager religiously with my mom when it was airing, I was 4-10 years old, it was hella cool to me. I’ve rewatched a lot of episodes since it’s on Netflix and Hulu but I’ve never rewatched the finale, in fact I had completed forgotten what even happened until I read the article. Gonna have to put that on later tonight. Rewatching as an adult it’s definitely cheesy AF but I loved all the characters. Harry, Seven, and The Doctor were my favorites overall. The Doc especially has some pretty epic episodes lol. Also, Voyager has my favorite theme music.


TheDeadalus

Same here, I used to watch it as a kid with my family and I adored all of it. Now as a 24 year old I can definitely see its flaws but it's still a good time nonetheless


battlegraye

Nothing could beat Enterprise’s absolute shitshow of an ending. “Love letter to the fans” they called it… I’d rather receive a credit card bill.


clc1997

Enterprise should have ended with Sam quantum leaping out of Captain Archer to go on his next adventure.


Bigbysjackingfist

Ziggy says Enterprise’s ending was bullshit and there’s an 86% chance you’re here to fix it


Tellus_Delenda_Est

This but unironically. I also would have accepted Bob Newhart waking up to tell Suzanne Pleshette about the dream he just had.


timesuck897

Craig Ferguson used that to end his late late show, and it was great.


clc1997

I mean it's all happening in Tommy Westphall's imagination, so why not!


Madly_Maxie

I got that reference


TwoDrinkDave

Benny Russell sprawling out the final page of his Enterprise script and then tossing it on a roaring fire.


TomatoFettuccini

I also would've accepted Jonathan Archer being recalled home from Enterprise, and being KIA on the way. Or just before Archer boards the shuttlepod for his new position after being promoted to admiral, Tripp catches Archer and says to him, "Look, I know how tough it is for you to say goodbye, so I’LL say it. Maybe you’re right, maybe we WILL see each other again, but just in case we don’t, I want you to know how much you’ve meant to me. I’ll never be able to shake you; whenever I see a pair of floppy beagle ears or a hairy chest, I’ll think of you." Then Tripp waves goodbye to Archer's shuttlepod as it leaves the podbay, and as it clears the bay, Archer sees on the underside of Enterprise's hull, in white, bold, capital letters, a single painted word: "**G O O D B Y E**"


Antique_futurist

*starts whistling theme from MASH*


alienian138a

Suicide Is Painless


Flangerine

That would work for me, as long as Tripp is humping T'Pol during that monologue, Porthos-style...in full view of Archer.


co_fragment

Maybe they could have retconned QL's depressing ending while they were at it.


StrangerKatchoo

I'm still pissed off that Sam never leaped the fuck home.


latravelthrowaway

He did! https://quantumleap.fandom.com/wiki/The_Leap_Back_(episode)


RouseTheBoroughs

I remember that shattered feeling when they killed Tripp … my dumbass back then found the producers email after a week of calling the studios and ripped them a new one


zodiaczxc

Yeah, and he was finally really getting it with Tpol! That was the stupidest main character death. Just the fact that his story with Tpol would have ushered in a new human/Vulcan compatibility storyline.


jsl19

If I could have found it i would have to.... it was sooooo out of character for trip. Even just talking about it makes me mad. It was on Netflix so i just re watched it all. Except the last one.


gargravarr2112

What do you mean? Terra Prime was a great episode...


battlegraye

The whole Riker thing. Him being ships cook and the whole show actually just being his experiences on the Holodeck in TNG, the cutaways to him and Deanna being OBVIOUSLY too old to still be on the Enterprise D, just urrgggghhh no it killed the whole show just as I honestly thought it was gaining some good legs to it.


NotARandomNumber

He's joking, Terra Prime was the penultimate episode which was drastically better and honestly in the top 5 episodes of the series.


gargravarr2112

Exactly that. Sufficiently ambiguous ending that it can be seen as the finale. What pissed me off the utmost was the way the finale cut off *right before Archer makes his speech to found the Federation*. There's even a knowing smirk from Deanna and Riker. I cannot think of a bigger F-U to the entire fandom.


G30therm

> the way the finale cut off right before Archer makes his speech to found the Federation This drove me absolutely bonkers.


NotARandomNumber

I bet it was going to be about gazelles


MaimedJester

No it was going to be about Water Polo rules.


JohnGillnitz

Or where does a dog pee on a space ship.


tothecatmobile

The whole "Riker was the chef" was adapted from the Rick Berman's idea to have Shatner appear in the show as the chef. And a temporal agent would notice how much the chef looks like Kirk, and bring him forward in time to pose as Kirk in a pivotal event. Luckily Shatner said no to that idea.


lavahot

I'm confused. The chef would pose as Kirk at what date? At the time of ENT he's not even born yet. He'd pose as Kirk sometime after Kirk was already taken by the Nexus, looking older than he's ever looked?


tothecatmobile

The chef would have been brought forward in time by the temporal agent to pose as Kirk.


PipsSnareDrum00

Yes, because the Temporal Cold War was such a gem of an idea on its own.


MrVeazey

The idea is good, but the execution left something to be desired. Fortunately, Star Trek Online managed to weave together all sorts of loose ends and one-off aliens into a much more cohesive and satisfying Temporal Cold War than anyone could have expected. The game is free to play, but it's the good kind of F2P where you can actually play through all the missions and do the whole story without spending a dime.


gargravarr2112

I choose to believe that These Are The Voyages... was not a real ST:E episode. More like fanfiction.


NotARandomNumber

For what it's worth, it's no longer canon. The official books retconned it. Since the entire episode was a holodeck recording, it was basically called an unreliable narrator.


BootyWhiteMan

What official books?


ZeePM

That episode felt so rushed and out of place. You had Terra Prime before then they fast forward 5 years. They skipped right over the Romulan War and we find out the whole episode is Riker dicking around on the holodeck because he can’t make up his mind over duty vs loyalty. That’s still the worst series finale ever even with GoT S8.


lemons714

Even without seeing a single episode, I cannot believe it was worse than GoT S8.


TiberiusCornelius

The final season of Enterprise > the final season of GOT but the final episode of Enterprise is honestly pretty appalling. Imagine if the final episode of GOT wasn't even actually an episode of GOT. That's what happened with Enterprise. It's kind of hard to make a direct comparison but imagine if, like, the last episode of Game of Thrones was suddenly set in future Westeros and revolved around some future person reading about everything that had happened over the past however many episodes, and that's basically the Enterprise finale.


Tilapia_of_Doom

Yeah GoT is much worse.


givemeadamnname69

Wait... wait... wait... I know nothing about this show.... Is that... Is that seriously how it ends...?


prodiver

It does end with Riker running a holodeck program where he's the ship's cook, but "the whole show actually just being his experiences on the Holodeck in TNG" isn't true. The whole show isn't a holodeck simulation, only the last episode.


givemeadamnname69

Ahhhh, ok. That's a lot less terrible.


sqeaky_fartz

But not really.


Grey___Goo_MH

Deep space 9 was better if willing to watch star trek more focused on aliens and the intermingling of them on a station focused around trade and the people on it.


givemeadamnname69

Oh yeah, totally. I grew up watching TNG, DS9, and Voyager with my dad. I only ever watched the first few episodes of Enterprise. If I remember correctly, it was because it was on WB and was moved to some oddball time slot part way through the first season or something. I never bothered with it because people always said how bad it was.


timesuck897

It’s better than what some people say, its worth a second chance. Skip and jump around the first 2 seasons, but season 3 and 4 are good. The first season of any sci-fi or Star Trek show can be rough, with the world building and large cast of characters to build up.


gargravarr2112

Afraid so. If you like Star Trek and have any intention of watching Enteprise, DO NOT watch the very last episode. It put me off Star Trek for a decade.


Voidsabre

It put Star Trek off Star Trek for a decade


_WhoisMrBilly_

What they did to Trip was a travesty.


big_thunder_man

I just finished the series with a friend this week (first Star Trek series ever, they thought I’d enjoy it). I can’t believe the blatant disrespect and insanity to the fans. We watched Trip and T’Pol almost get together for four years, then they’re going to break them up and kill him in the last fucking episode? Literal dogshit.


alexanderpas

For what it's worth, it's no longer canon. The official books retconned it. Since the entire episode was a holodeck recording, it was basically called an unreliable narrator. (Courtesy of: /u/NotARandomNumber)


lacks_imagination

I wish that could be done with season 8 of Game of Thrones.


sim21521

>whole show actually just being his experiences on the Holodeck in TNG It's been a while since I've seen it, but I don't think that's what happened. They used Riker as a device to be able to jump through time to talk about Archer's accomplishments and the beginning of the Federation. I didn't mind it as a wrap-up to a series that was kind of struggling. It's no All good things, but few things are. I'd take Enterprise's ending to Voyager's ending any day of the week, and twice on Sundays.


battlegraye

They kept using the ships’s cook as a kind of counsellor figure the whole way through the show without ever actually showing the character was until revealing it to be Riker in the ending episodes, having inserted himself into the crew as ships cook specifically to fill the role where he’d be a crew member who spoke to everybody. Either they had it planned the whole time or used it as a conveniently unresolved plot point to wrap things up, but either way it sucked.


GranadaReport

I interpreted the cook being an off screen character as more of a running gag, akin to the character Morn in DS9 doing all kinds of wild stuff off camera but we only ever see him sat silently at the bar. It was probably just someone's clever idea to make him Riker in the episode, but even if the cook was actually shown on screen at some other point Riker could have just as easily been playing the part of some random unnamed crewmember in the final episode and it would still work. (or not work, considering no one liked it).


MulciberTenebras

The concept of the episode itself wasn't bad (having future characters interact with a holodeck version of Enterprise cast). Like when the DS9 cast digitally inserted themselves into footage from TOS. It just wouldn't have sucked as much had they not chosen the *very LAST episode* to explore this idea.


pbradley179

i'm starting to sense that Star Trek doesn't think much of its audience...


Bo-Katan

Among other things they never recovered from RDM leaving.


kilkenny99

When Manny Coto became the lead writer in the last season of Enterprise, it definitely took a turn for the better with all the proto-Federation groundwork they were laying (cooperation with Andorians, their rivalry with the Vulcans, etc) - despite the finale dropping the ball on it (though that was a Berman/Braga episode, not Coto's). And the Enterprise run of Mirror Universe episodes were probably the best MU stuff from all the Treks, fan service as it was.


bullintheheather

Enterprise was steadily getting better when it was cancelled, they just took too long to get there, which is a shame.


Rainblast

> they just took too long to get there It was a long road, getting from there to here.


morgecroc

Get out.


RobbStark

Another thing that I think contributed to Enterprise getting canceled was the last few seasons of Voyager not being received very well, either. After TNG and DS9 ended, it definitely felt like everything Trek was heading downhill, then Enterprise struggled to find itself the first couple of seasons. It was just too much to overcome at the time.


moal09

Rick Berman and the Voyager heads were asses. Garret Wong said they were told to deliberately act more wooden.


BruteSentiment

I loved the fact that most of the last season was multi-episode stories. It changed things up and really worked, IMO.


neoKushan

I'll be honest, I hated Enterprise overall but I'll still tell everyone who'll listen to go watch the mirror universe episode "In a mirror, darkly". It's just so good.


HeliumIsotope

Idk if you are aware. But enterprise was cancelled. And so they never had a last episode. Terra prime was the last episode. Shame it ended like that but it was a great episode nonetheless! Would have been interesting to have maybe even one more episode. But hey, when a show gets cancelled, what can you do.


0s_and_1s

Made me snort with laughter.


MetalBawx

I mean it came from the guys who gave us "Archer and Philox commit genocide" so as terrible as ENT's ending was it could have been worse... It could have been a holo- OH WAIT.


ElementalFiend

Wow, I've seen the full Enterprise series a handful of times (I hated it originally, but it grew on me) and I don't remember this last episode at all. It's all a holodeck? Tripp dies? My only guess is it really is so bad that my mind refuses to acknowledge it or remember it.


ground__contro1

I dunno what these people are talking about either. I think they are just some crazies, let’s not listen to them. Riker holodeck season finale? Yeah that’s ridiculous.


Noligation

It's been a long road...


gargravarr2112

Gettin' from there to here...


Rick-Danko

It's been a long time.....


gargravarr2112

But my time is finally near...


Pudgy_Ninja

I still don't understand what happened at the end of the finale. They're being chased by the Borg ship and have to exit the conduit early or something like that, then the Borg ship shows up in Earth space and then suddenly it explodes and Voyager was inside? I've watched it multiple times and I have no idea what happened.


PhoenixReborn

Yeah, the Borg ship opens a hatch to pull them in. Voyager is taking too much damage to make it through. Janeway orders a course correction. We see the payoff as the sphere lands in the Alpha quadrant and is destroyed from the inside by Voyager.


xstrike0

Yeah they never really explain how or why Voyager got inside the Borg Sphere.


[deleted]

A good magician / bad writer doesn’t reveal his tricks


BluestreakBTHR

It was a ham-fisted attempt at manufacturing a dramatic moment. The writers used the “Delta-Quadrant aperture” as a red herring to make you think they’d have to use that as an escape route because they wouldn’t survive more pounding from the Borg attack. So the plotwavium was they stowed away inside the sphere as in the parable of “the scorpion and the frog” but with a twist.


BW_Bird

I see what the writer is saying but I partially disagree. The ending was a mess (and I hated how it defanged the Borg) but it was hardly anti-climactic. The final fight scenes were big, the stakes were high and we had some good character moments, especially with old and young Janeway playing off each other.


mariusbr

I wasn't a fan of the finale, but I wouldn't call it an anti-climax either. It was a curve-ball of an ending since I really don't think anyone was expecting a Janeway from the future to come back and bring Voyager home. The experimental idea was kind of dumb. I'd say it was still fun to watch and had a final feel to it.


lutiana

I feel like the scene where they are all on the bridge looking at earth and are all looking somewhat shocked that their plan worked is one of the most iconic moments in Trek for me. Very much the antithesis of anti-climatic IMO.


HavoKDarK

It's so good because it looks like none of expected the plan to actually work. Janeway was ready to die to cripple the Borg and they got both things done instead. Just give me another hour for closure, and it would have been so much better


DigitalPriest

Yep, this is one of the few cases where "19 years later" sort of scene from Harry Potter was needed (just not the way it was done in the HP universe). I want to see a "1 Year Later" scene. * Janeway is an Admiral teaching at the Academy. * Chakotay is a Captain doing humanitarian missions to the disaffected and wayward Maquis that remain, helping rebuild colonies in the Cardassian DMZ. Most of the Voyager crew that decided to remain in Starfleet, Maquis and Stafleet alike, have remained under his command. Voyager itself was decommissioned for scientific study and historical preservation. His new ship is named the USS Val Jean in honor of the ship the Maquis sacrificed in order to join Voyager. * Tom is an Academy flight instructor or helmsman for a major starship. * Harry finally got promoted, skipped over Lieutenant and is full Lieutenant-Commander specializing in Starship Design at Utopia Planitia. * Tuvok received his cure, but in Neelix's honor put up his Starfleet pips to become Federation Ambassador to the Talaxians (and First Ambassador to the Species of the Delta Quadrant) while working on enhancing wormhole-based communications. * B'elanna became Chief Engineer on whichever ship Tom is on, or Warp Field scientist at the Academy. * Seven did not join Starfleet, disillusioned by their treatment of her as a lab rat after her growth under the Doctor & Janeway. She joined Chakotay's work in the DMZ, though off-ship through the group that would become known as the Rangers, fighting for the little people. * The Doctor went to work on Earth and at Jupiter Station, leading new advances in medicine and holography, annoying Dr. Zimmerman until the end of his days.


MrVeazey

And Tom Morello reprises his cameo at the science station on bridge of the *Valjean*.


codeverity

I think even more emotion at the very end there would have been a bit more satisfying for people, even if they didn't add extra time. There's less than two minutes at the end where they're 'home', and we see very little emotional response to it. There's more emotion over the baby! I know that part of it is due to shock, but still.


Lapse77

I remember reading somewhere that Garret Wong did this moment where he cried tears of joy when they reached earth. But they ended up changing that in editing so him crying was in response to the birth of the baby instead, which Wong got annoyed about.


ender___

Kim didn’t really care about the baby, he ALWAYS wanted to get the fuck home. He was ready do literally anything to do it, Ensign Kim would have balled at the sight of earth


NerimaJoe

Getting back to earth might mean even getting a promotion from ensign after seven years.


spyczech

I hate it when people call an ending not to their taste anti climactic, an ending you think is bad can still be a dramatic climax


ELB2001

It forms the tech problem. The Federation gets future technology from the returning Voyager. Ruining the Borg forever.


action_lawyer_comics

Except the Borg have seen it all too, and they’ll adapt. Basically both sides jump ahead in the arms race by 70 years.


spartanofsol

That was my very first thought when the finale ended and credits started. I havnt read any of the books but I’m intrigued about what the Federation, Starfleet and Section 31 would do about it. Hide the technology? Or use it to enforce their position because of the heavy loses due to the Dominion War, ships and people. I thought at the time we would find out in a new Start Trek series but then nothing by for 20 years lol


Ssutuanjoe

Yeah, all your points are solid and really set up good potential for interesting space politics... Would the Federation really share anti-borg tech (arguably the most powerful in this universe) with it's enemies, despite enemy states being consumed by the Borg (heck, would they share it with some allies, even)? Innocent people hopelessly assimilated cuz the Federation wants a power play. Pretty fertile soil for interesting stories. Unfortunately, I think the era of that Trek universe is over in place of Discovery, and somewhat Picard. So I don't think we're gonna be seeing anything like that.


Noligation

Should have gone full salamander, IMO. They would have reached earth in no time at warp 10 and doctor is already there to treat them!


SamohtGnir

I also figured they could have used the Wormhole drive, that ended with them crashing on the ice planet, except just do it in short bursts before it destabilizes.


Mazon_Del

Voyager was rather bad about discovering multiple ways to get home quickly that have altogether minor problems, and deciding that those problems are just insurmountable without any justification. Like, ok, you could easily say that "Though we fixed everybody and their genetic problems once with zero apparent consequence, your body can't take the strain of this much genetic fuckery and you'll all die if we do it again.". Except, they didn't say that.


TheSpaghettiEmperor

The worst part is a lot of these plots could have been done without a "this tech might get us home" angle. They should have saved that for one or two instances with big moral ramifications that were the centre of the episode. It was completely unnecessary to have a warp 10 drive/potential way home be the cause of the salamander episode. They could have explored that idea (whatever the hell they were trying to say???) with them finding some other random alien tech that caused it.


darkslide3000

One of the reasons Voyager isn't considered a great show is because there are numerous points like these where the whole premise falls apart. Starting with the pilot's "why don't we just rig the caretaker's station with timed explosives and send ourselves back home right before it blows up?"


AnotherJasonOnReddit

Except the doctor messes up with Tuvok and Neelix, and thus Tuvix is reborn... *and hungry for revenge!*


Noligation

Janeway: Computer! Play my boss music, I got Tuvix to kill.


Turduckennn

*"The Only Thing They Fear is You" intensifies*


bc4284

The only thing scarier than doomguy when there’s a demon between him and a bunny. Is the thought of Janeway with “hazard team” gear. Only second to Sisko coming to get his baseball back, a man who gives so few fucks that he will punch Q in the face is a man to Fear


FakeLCSFacts

Q will tell you that he's all- powerful, but he didn't dare show his face on DS9 again once The Emissary punched him clear to the Delta Quadrant


ZDTreefur

Janeway seeing Tuvix suddenly: "Oh boy, here I go killin' again."


esqualatch12

Only Alpha Quadrant radiation can kill him! quickly to earth!


liquidpig

Wrath of Tuvix needs to be a movie.


PippoKPax

Still can’t believe an answer to a Jeopardy! question was actually “Tuvix”


the-zoidberg

WHAT DID YOU PEOPLE DO TO TUVOK?!


ElectricPeterTork

Yeah, but that gives them another opportunity to kill Tuvix. And killing Tuvixes is a good thing.


X_PRSN

Barclay to Admiral Paris: “Sir, I have good news and I have bad news...”


munkeycop

If you think that’s a stinker then boy oh boy, the Enterprise finale is going to absolutely tickle you.


Have_A_Jelly_Baby

I don’t know what you’re talking about. Enterprise ended with the Peter Weller two parter.


robyn_herbert

I liked the finale. Unpopular opinion.


VinBarrKRO

Sucks. As a kid-ish I watched Voyager religiously. The finale was such a let down, “we made it.” Aaaaand credits. Recently got into DS9 over Covid. Some episodes were silly but when it came to the end what a pay off. I actually felt more from that ending over Voyager. It sad that DS9 was so overlooked but it’s getting its momentum now in streaming.


galileosmiddlefinger

That final shot of ds9 at the end of the finale, pulling away from Kira and Jake to show the tiny station floating in the vastness of space...just fantastic.


machfrons

Might be heresy but DS9 is my favorite Star Trek series.


nebulatron

Not heresy at all, it's probably the best overall Trek. They did this weird thing where character progression actually matters, and conflicts take seasons to play out instead of 99% of them being wrapped up in the space of a single episode. Also a show where (most) side characters were as well-written and acted as the main cast, with important plot points and contributions of their own. I love most Trek, but DS9 is the only one that truly feels like it deserves multiple watches as a whole series.


machfrons

Yeah, the characters and their developement are great. Gul Dukat was a fantastic villain. And you're absolutely correct about the side characters. I recall that episode where that Cardassian clerk turned himself in for the crimes of his superior. Damn, he played that well.


nebulatron

Also on the note about side characters: they managed to have a Frank Sinatra-esque sentient hologram as a major side character and it worked brilliantly. [7x10 - It's Only a Paper Moon](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/It%27s_Only_a_Paper_Moon_(Star_Trek:_Deep_Space_Nine)) is an absolute classic. RIP Aron Eisenberg


Painterphilfung

Not heresy at all. DS9 was my favorite too. The character development, the ties that bind and the Dominion war and the stakes involved are the best imo.


stays_in_vegas

The end of _In The Pale Moonlight_ (6x19) was the coolest thing 15-year-old me had ever seen on TV. Still gives me goosebumps every time I watch it. As I recall that episode was extremely controversial among the production staff because of how far it took Sisko.


monsantobreath

Its the opinion that has aged like wine into the Golden age of TV since its clear how it was a precursor for many if its qualities.


CampCounselorBatman

TOS, TNG and DS9 are all beloved in a way that no other Star Trek series is. Picking any of these as your favorite will always be a popular choice.


NotARandomNumber

It always amazes me how much Voyager nerfed the Borg. Them destroying the transwarp corridor was already too much, having them destroy an entire Borg armada would have been absolutely overkill. I enjoyed Voyager, but it always seemed full of great ideas that never got executed. Like the mixed crew never really had tension, the ship was basically always fine by the next episode, no character really suffered from PTSD/isolation of being alone in the Delta quadrant, etc.


samuraislider

Ya. they really could have played more into the attrition of being alone in space and lacking the resources of Starfleet. The wear and tear on the ship, and trying to keep it functional. Maybe incorporating more tech from aliens they encounter as they go. So the ship looks visibly different when they finally get home.


protegomyeggo

Material resources (dilithium, metals/alloys, antimatter, deuterium, etc.) should have remained a HUGE issue for the entire show; it should have depicted the crew truly struggling to survive and keep the ship functioning. Make them replace Starfleet tech with alien tech as it wears out and breaks down, slowly changing the look of the ship. Introduce creative ways to conserve as the seasons progress. The airponics bay should have slowly expanded to have plants nearly everywhere on the ship (that tiny room canNOT produce enough food for 150 people). Year of Hell should have been a season-long storyline, and by the end of the series Voyager (the ship) should have been almost unrecognizable, with Borg and other alien tech added, and should have looked more “lived-in” rather than Starfleet-standard. I also almost wish they had slowly stopped wearing the uniforms and by the end everyone is wearing civilian clothes (with the combadge of course).


LukariBRo

The airponics bay could totally feed hundreds of people. Of course not with today's level of agricultural technology. But look at 2021 vs 1921 vs 1821 vs 1721 etc. That whole room should have been a place of agricultural wonders by today's standards. Plants that grow from magic space energy sources, and provide edible calories in mere hours due to more space magic controlling growth cycles. They'd probably have full easy access to the DNA of all the plants to the level that even Voyager's children could play around with it in simulators and contribute advancements in the necessary, unique configurations special to Voyager.


protegomyeggo

Thanks for your reply, you’ve convinced me! Airponics could have been a botanical wonderland had they used some genetics technology and some better scriptwriting…


zykezero

it could have been floor to ceiling hanging gardens style.


emotionalsupporttank

The year of hell was one of the best star trek story limes ever. I liked when they ran into the other federation ship that was all beat to shit and had nothing (don't remember the episode, but it was a good one)


thatguamguy

"Equinox". Technically two good ones (it was one of those season ending cliffhangers).


GotMoFans

>I also almost wish they had slowly stopped wearing the uniforms and by the end everyone is wearing civilian clothes (with the combadge of course). This only works if Janeway had died because there is no way she would have gone away from protocol.


the_original_Retro

Plus replicators. As long as there's enough energy to run replicators, clothes are pretty easy.


NotARandomNumber

No no, there's no energy to run replicators, but enough energy to run the holodecks. This way we can have Neelix's kitchen AND quirky holodeck adventures!


HavoKDarK

Because it's also protocol for Starfleet Captains to spit on the Prime Directive every few episodes or so


MetalBawx

I think my favourite one of those was the one in which Janeway herself violated the Prime Directive by trying to enforce it on non Federation species outside Federation space while also managing to lose a wormhole home as well in the process. Still to this day boggled as to how that fuckfest didn't end in a mutiny.


NotARandomNumber

Shit, she could have gotten her crew home by just deciding to back Q and not let that other Q leave the continuum. She could have sucked it up, made the decision, and gotten her crew home in the snap of a finger. Sisko would have been back before lunch.


MetalBawx

Sisko would have just used the Caretaker Array after rigging it with a bunch of bombs on timers.


Vio_

Sisko would have just used the Caretaker Array after *having O'Brien rig it with a bunch of bombs on timers.


Another_human_3

I was with you until the uniforms. I think the uniforms and all that were important for morale in their mission to get back home, and to keep the ethics and laws and code of conduct as well as chain of command of Starfleet to keep everything in order.


tinydonuts

If you want resource management issues there's always Stargate Universe. It got pretty tedious and wearing because it's always another emergency and those get old fast. If they had done year of hell as a whole season that would have gotten grating. I liked it as a two part episode.


the_original_Retro

Agreed, but not quite the same thing. Remember the end of that excellent story simply pulled the "never actually happened thanks to time fuckery" trope. Couldn't do that to an entire season without making the fans feel super-cheated. I could see a ton of story arcs that could have explained Voyager struggling but staying in at least partial repair. I think my favourite idea was a fast-paced twoparter near the end of an episode where an entire ghost ship is found - a failed experiment of Starfleet to send help through a wormhole - and there's a limited time window to salvage as much good and compatible stuff as the crew can before its core detonates. (I'm playing Hardspace: Shipbreakers and it's right up this alley)


NotARandomNumber

Talk about another wasted series. It took them way too long to find their footing. The earlier parts of the series relied too heavily on the use of the mind stones (or whatever the hell) to show us what was happening back on Earth. The CO's divorce storyline was just so cringeworthy and not needed.


book_smrt

That and BSG


JohnGillnitz

To their credit, BSG did have resource issues as a major plot line.


book_smrt

Totally agree. That was the point of my short comment lol


Cutriss

_Stargate Universe has entered the chat._


Noligation

It needed to be serialized like DS9/ Babylon 5.


SweetTrading

That was how shows were back then, though. Episodic shows were built for syndication. You needed a clean reset because in syndication they’d often be aired out of order, so it needed to be set up so people could just turn it on and watch, regardless of the episode.


MontiBurns

That was the original conception that Ronald D. Moore had in mind. since his vision didn't come to fruition, he went on to create the BSG reboot.


spyson

I think Voyager would have been an amazing series if it wasn't pigeonholed to being self contained episodes. Instead of a reset button we get longer and bigger overarching storylines of traversing an alien quadrant trying to survive.


OK_Soda

There were inklings of this. Every season or so they had some other super power whose territory they were passing through and constantly getting harassed by. You don't notice it on the first watch really but the Kazon for example show up a lot early on and then kind of fade out as they leave that territory, then it's the Vidians and so on.


GotMoFans

The Kazon were supposed to be the big baddies, but they weren’t liked by the fanbase so they got dropped.


MulciberTenebras

A worse idea than when they thought the Ferengi would be the big bads to replace the Klingons on TNG.


IAMA_Plumber-AMA

At least we got to see Wallace Shawn play the Grand Nagus out of that, though.


MulciberTenebras

Yeah, DS9 managed to improve upon and make the Ferengi work. Nothing could've saved the dimestore reject Klingons that the Kazon were.


cupcakes4brains

I was never able to take the Kazon seriously. They remind me very forcefully of tall Oompa-Loompas, and their "sects" blended together to me in a very boring way.


RpTheHotrod

They did go that route during the Year of Hell. It all got fixed eventually through time shenanigans though.


LaytonsCat

I love Voyager but it is really a victim in hindsight of 90s TV. I know DS9 had the longer arcs but for whatever reason they were always afraid to do them in Voyager and show really suffered for it. If they made it today when everyone is watching shows in proper order they would have been able to lean into the "lost in space" vibe so much more.


xhrit

>for whatever reason they were always afraid to do them in Voyager and show really suffered for it It was a cost cutting measure, ds9's tight storyline was a nightmare to film and made the writers have to finish the whole season in order, because that was the only way to ensure continuity, while voy's episodic nature let the producers send the entire season's scripts out and film them in the order the writers finished, with zero effort in continuity since the status quo was reset at the end of each episode.


Jeffy29

Until season 6-7 DS9 had only like 4-5 "main storyline" episodes per season, rest of them were only vaguely tied if not at all.


wgriz

The medium is the message. The show suffers now from being episodic, but Voyager was one of those shows that did well in syndication because of that. It was a lot harder to keep up with a plot arc back in the day. If you missed an episode, good luck finding it again until it hit home video. The most you could really do was a multi-part stories where you could do a recap.


Famous1107

I agree with Kate mulgrew, janeway had to die. But kill her off, then dump voyager at the edge of federation space, just barely making it, on fumes.


INMATEofARKHAM

I really liked the concept of the episode but the execution wasn't great... Cutting much of the front part and using that time to expand upon their return would have been a better episode. (Maybe even using the 10 year anniversary party to show what really happened to the characters.)


AnotherJasonOnReddit

>I really liked the concept ... but the execution wasn't great Star Trek: Voyager in a nutshell


TripleJeopardy3

The big whiff was not seeing them return home. But it could always be worse...Enterprise's ending was a fucking farce and an insult.


zoobrix

I caught Jonathan Frakes talking a few years ago about how he didn't really like doing the final Enterprise episode but since they cancelled Enterprise at the last minute as production was wrapping for the season it was presented to him by the studio as an "it's either this or nothing" kind of thing which is why the finale has him in the kitchen set for so much of it, they didn't have the budget or time to do anything else. So he knew it was a slap in the face but figured it was better than just having no ending at all. Still awful all the way round.


TheCrazedTank

That actually explains a lot, they must have known what a "slap in the face" that premise was, but weren't given much options by the network.


Wookimonster

>I think Seven of Nine should have bit the dust,” Braga told TrekCore cgeting home; a real blood sacrifice. Seven of Nine was, for me,designed to be a character that was gonna die tragically. I plannedthat.” Braga was overruled by Berman at the time and that’s a goodthing, otherwise Star Trek: Picard would have been denied one of its masterstrokes of adding Seven to its cast. Masterstroke? Really?


thanatossassin

They meant masturbatory strokes, don't mind them.


ViscountessKeller

Yeah, I can't think of anything in Picard I'd describe as a master stroke, short of my theory that Patrick Stewart must have suffered one to be in that crap.


Inevitable_Citron

Ha! I'm going to hell for laughing at this.


Hoplophobia

It's so she could dual wield phasers and murder people like it's an action movie. That's a masterstroke.


62609

Side note: them killing icheb brutally at the beginning of an episode killed Picard for me. Up to then, it was almost as much (if not more) of a disappointment as discovery, but that sealed the deal for it being the worst Star Trek series (so far)


bubbameister33

“The Year of Hell” storyline is what was wasted.


cloneketsuji

Even through the shows clunkiest moments, I still rewatch its monumental moments: - Seven’s introduction and addition to the crew is an master stroke in recreating the same energy and conflict that Data’s character and Spock originated in previous series but, added some much needed femininity and borg twists. - The absolutely incredible chemistry and flow between Seven and The Dr. The absolute pinnacle was Body & Soul. The scenes as Ryan masterfully plays Piccardo’s Doctor are fucking amazing.


LiquidGnome

> The absolutely incredible chemistry and flow between Seven and The Dr. The absolute pinnacle was Body & Soul. The scenes as Ryan masterfully plays Piccardo’s Doctor are fucking amazing. She did do an excellent job portraying the Doctor in Seven's body. And the swapping back to Seven's personality after the Doctor's indulgences were amazing as well. She really did seem like she felt violated.


UncleDan2017

Star Trek Enterprise says hi.


FreyrFreyja

Anytime I need a reminder about how the world is all about perspective, I think about how for years Enterprise was the worst Trek, but now it's just kind of a mediocre/misguided Trek.


clarklewmatt

> mediocre/misguided Trek If they would have just started the show with Season 4 ideas, imagine telling the history of Starfleet / Federation, which should be quite interesting and was when they finally got to it, then deciding it was boring and we needed time travel or w,e new stuff.


GooseFord

That's the show, I believe, that most of people expected it was going to be. Instead, they spent most of the show involved in a major war that had never been mentioned in all the prior shows, despite them all being set after the war. It was like suddenly being told about World War Zero, an apparently historical event that no one thought to mention previously.


getmoney7356

The whole war was a reaction to 9/11. Enterprise decided to pivot and ended season 2 with a giant attack on earth that kills millions and season 3 was all about going to war and getting revenge, which 100% parallels what happened in the US the year prior. It was a last ditch effort to keep Star Trek relevant to current events, continuity with other shows be damned.


BW_Bird

I rewatched a few episodes recent and I agree. The one thing I'll give to ST:E is that, even though it's one of the less popular Trek's, I'll still call it a Star Trek.


UncleDan2017

I think Deep Space 9 has also vaulted in people's estimations in the age of streaming, since binging tends to emphasize story arcs vs pure episodic story telling.


robodrew

DS9 has always been awesome


MulciberTenebras

DS9 was the first thing I ever binged when Netflix debuted with streaming.


NotARandomNumber

Enterprise's ending was retconned in the relaunch books. They even reversed the death of the major character that died.


therealpoopius

Yah, those books really helped fix the bad taste leftover from the series ending. The Good That Men Do was sooooo good


broganisms

> ...one of the franchise’s most underwhelming and anti-climatic notes. *laughs in Enterprise*


catschainsequel

>Voyager zooms toward Earth under starship escort before the end credits roll. And that’s it. After spending seven years with these characters, approximately three minutes of screentime is all that’s spent on the realization of their dream to get home. There’s no real exploration of the emotional impact this endpoint would have on the crew. This is what irked me.


TripplerX

Hello, let me introduce myself. I am "apparently the only person on Earth who liked Voyager's finale". How are you?


CFGX

>Braga was overruled by Berman at the time and that’s a good thing, otherwise Star Trek: Picard would have been denied one of its masterstrokes of adding Seven to its cast. By "masterstroke" they must mean "complete assassination of a character."


RelentlessRogue

Star Trek: Enterprise has entered the chat. Voyager was underwhelming, Enterprise was pitiful, and the reason why makes it worse.


grandmofftalkin

DS9 had a perfect ending not because it was serialized but because its writers cared about characters finding their endings. Winn died faithless, Dukat went out a pawn instead of a king, Worf, Odo and Garak got to return to their home people, and Sisko’s fate as Emissary was shocking when it first aired. That final shot of Kira and Jake staring out the window still tears me up. Voyager went for adventure ending instead of wrapping up character threads. Would’ve loved to see what it meant for the Maquis crew to have to deal with both Starfleet and realizing their group was eradicated. How returning would have screwed with 7 or if Harry Kim would have resigned or Tuvok’s family reunion.


ishtar_the_move

If the big idea that got scrapped was just 7 of 9 dying they might as well just save it. It is a gimmicky idea to kill someone off when there is no more stake in the story telling. Voyager was doomed when they just tried to re-tell the same story over and over again. The star trek well was long dried by this point.