The issue of 'Agents of SHIELD'

The issue of 'Agents of SHIELD'


I just wish that people would stop spelling canon as "cannon".


[Well, here's my headcannon.](https://xkcd.com/1401/)


Ha! Sorry about that. Thanks for pointing it out.


Nothing will ever change the fact that AoS is a well written and acted action serial set in the early MCU and fans who stick with it are rewarded with great entertainment. Like in comics, Marvel will contradict itself more and more as the film and TV content pile up. We can argue about canon or just enjoy what we enjoy and live with some cognitive dissonance. No one can erase Agents of Shield.


"Every Marvel fan is in favor of erasing AoS from canon". Fuck you, Decider.com


There seems to be a few people (fan boys, if you will) who seem to take great pleasure in winding up AOS fans. Several of those people include divisive bloggers or “scoopers” who think they’re journalists. 99.9% of them didn’t watch the show and those that did, probably wrote it off after the first episode. It seems like we get a new article every second week claiming things like the show is not canon. Others says it never was. Some say Kevin Feige has confirmed it’s not canon. Others roll out a mix of all of the above and use other “articles” as their evidence. Kevin Feige has never said the shows aren’t canon or existing in the universe. And no vaguely worded summary of a quote taken out of context can prove otherwise. Everyone knows the shows were made with the intention of connecting to, and existing in, the MCU. Everyone knows that Marvel Studios and Marvel Television were once both housed under Marvel Entertainment and that’s part of the reason the show was so connected to the movies. Everyone also knows the connections became lesser in the later seasons because of the split between Marvel Studios and Marvel Entertainment. But, that doesn’t change the fact that AOS was created to connect with the movies. Louis D’esposito, who is one of the movie EPs and co-President of Marvel Studios, receives special thanks in the credits for a lot of AOS episodes. So, when the writers of AOS mention talking to the folks at Marvel Studios, that’s who they’re talking about. This was confirmed by Mark Kolpack on Twitter. The production team behind AOS was amazing. Yes, they had a horrible budget, but that was ABC’s decision. But the people who claim the show isn’t canon are wrong. They can print as many clickbait articles as they like, but it doesn’t mean they’re right. It just means they’re trolls.


Not trolling; I've watched every Marvel series, and read scores of interviews-- from the creators of the series-- and can affirm that as good as it became... Agents of Shield was never intended to be part of the MCU. That was a factor of it being produced by Marvel Television (Jeph Loeb, who answered to Isaac Perlmutter), versus Marvel Studios (Kevin Feige, who didn't want to answer to anybody) -- and the internecine "war" that was going on to wrest control of Marvel creative decisions away from Perlmutter, with battles from 2015, until Ike (along with Jeph Loeb) was ultimately sidelined in 2019, when Feige was made " Marvel Entertainment chief creative officer" over every iteration. (As an FYI: Permutter and Avi Arad effectively took over a bankrupt Marvel in the 1990s, when the company merged with Toy Biz-- following a protracted battle with Carl Icahn and Ron Pearlman.) But it was also a factor of Joss Whedon getting pulled between the two entities, and apparently not caring who he pissed off. From an [IGN interview in 2015](https://www.ign.com/articles/2015/04/27/why-the-marvel-movie-guys-are-annoyed-with-joss-whedon), when Whedon was asked about Coulson's existence in the MCU versus AoS: >“Yeah he’s dead. The entire television series is just a fever dream... > >“It’s a weird little yes and no. As far as I’m concerned in the films, yes he’s dead. In terms of the narrative of these guys [The Avengers] his loss was very important. When I created the television show, it was sort of on the understanding that this can work and we can do it with integrity, but these Avengers movies are for people to see the Avengers movies and nothing else. And it would neither make sense nor be useful to say ‘Oh and by the way remember me? I died!’” EDIT: **tl;dr: Creator of AoS Joss Whedon said Phil Coulson is dead in the "Avengers movies."**


https://www.slashfilm.com/kevin-feige-suggests-phase-2-will-have-agents-of-s-h-i-e-l-d-ramifications-plus-non-network-tv-shows-secret-identity-movie/ "Well, Jeph Loeb, who runs the TV division for Marvel, is in charge of that show, and is doing a great job of overseeing that show, and the studio’s involvement in that is limited to them going “Hey, we’re thinking of doing something like this, is that ok?” and we’ll go yay or nay. But I’ll say that it’s a smart question, and it’ll probably happen sooner than you realize. I think that’s part of the fun they’re having with that show is that it inhabits the same universe, so if there’s a big event, there’ll be ripples." https://www.slashfilm.com/kevin-feige-interview-avengers-age-of-ultron/3/ **I had to ask. Now, when Nick Fury goes away and comes back with a Helicarrier. That seems like a big chunk of off screen story. Is that something we might see referenced on S.H.I.E.L.D.** Feige: I think it’s fair to say you could fill in some of those blanks in the coming weeks on Tuesday at 9. Note: This would be the first and only tangible connection for a TV to movie story detail. The helicarrier being repaired for Fury is a storyline from that season of Agents of SHIELD, which is a secret mission called "Theta Protocol". Further proof can be seen from the official Bonus Materials for Avengers:Age of Ultron. A digital-exclusive extra called "Connecting the Universe" was released with the home video debut back in 2015. It's available on MoviesAnywhere if you own Age Of Ultron digitally. It creates a timeline tracking events in the MCU for connections and draws a direct line from the helicarriers being wrecked in Winter Soldier, to repaired in Agents of SHIELD, and used in Age of Ultron. This is an official studio produced special feature, not a Youtube vid or theory or random site article.


>While speaking with Omelete at CCXP Brazil, Feige spoke about the new direction the MCU is taking by incorporating the Disney+ Streaming Series as important canon. >“After Endgame, thinking, ‘What can we do next?’ Disney+ is going to give us this opportunity to tell even deeper stories with characters you already know and love…**in a new type of cinematic way that we haven’t done before.** We’ve already started shooting two of them and they’re very, very special. >**And it all, for the first time, will interlink. So, the MCU will be on your TV screen at home on Disney+ and interconnect with the movies and go back and forth.** It’s exciting to expand the MCU into even bigger and better heights.” >This is probably the most professional, passive aggressive way of giving Jeph Loeb the middle finger as Feige takes over all aspects of Marvel Entertainment. There have always been rumors of the two not seeing eye to eye on projects, and this is the best way for Feige to come in and make a clean slate. https://www.screengeek.net/2019/12/11/mcu-marvel-tv-kevin-feige/


I thought the show was absolutely amazing and I agree with what u said about the heroes being normal people cus that’s so true, I thought the inhumans were a great part of the show and how the Inhumans grow and change during the show. The first season really showed how shield worked and the second season for most of the show showed what happened too all of shield after Captain America The Winter Soldier. I do kinda wish they started the show before avengers so it could show more of how shield started and how they operated but overall the show in my opinion is so good. The characters and amazing and come on who doesn’t love Phil Coulson.


I don't see our agents as" everyday people " as you call it, they are the elite of the elite, FitzSimmons are the most genius, only iron man and hulk smarter, I guess, Daisy has super powers, May is same level as black widow, Coulson being Coulson and so on. For me, to this point there is nothing that makes AoS non canon.


Exactly. AoS is canon and in the same universe as the movies. It doesn't matter that the movies never mentioned inhumans or that the agents weren't featured in Endgame. It doesn't matter there was a different darkhold in Wandavision. It also doesn't matter that Feige's MCU never incorporated anything from the shows. Just because Feige doesn't want these shows in his MCU, doesn't mean he can have it his way. People keep bringing up that AoS didn't reference the snap. That as protectors of the world, the most devastating thing to ever happen to humanity had zero impact on the agents and their surroundings. Well...so what? And guess what, Inhumans is canon too since it's Marvel TV. No one can say otherwise.


I was referring to the broader concept of SHIELD rather than the individual characters, but you make a fair point. After the first season, the fall of "Big SHIELD" led to a minor departure from the original concept, but I think maintains it well in the character of Coulson. On the other thing, I would have agreed a few months ago, >!but with the re-intro of the darkhold!< in WandaVision, it does look like that's what the studio is headed towards.


So bad news: AoS was never in the MCU proper. It was always in a 'tangential reality' -- in a similar way that the Netflix Marvel series, *Daredevil*, *Luke Cage*, et al weren't really part of the MCU, even though they reference characters in the movies. Marvel films have never acknowledged Phil Coulson being still alive -- even though he's interacted with Nick Fury, Maria Hill and Sif -- because, in the films, he's not alive. All of the productions made by Marvel Television, before being subsumed into Marvel Studios have been orphaned in the same way. Edit: [See my fuller discussion](https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudios/comments/nx1dcg/the_issue_of_agents_of_shield/h1cj8gm?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) in response to another comment.


I have always thought that something doesn't need to be in the MCU to be amazing. AoS and Netflix shows are great examples of that.


How the other non-Marvel Studios shows deal with humility of superheroes and the hierarchy of heroes and people vs how Marvel Studios has been putting its heroes above others has always been a turn off for me. It feels less heroic.