"You can't compare Star Wars to WW2!"
By - LongdayinCarcosa
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Mr. Miller, did you really just compare the Salem Witch Trials to McCarthyism and the Red Scare?
Hold on I gotta look something up
Okay this is funny
Im just gonna trust you on this. Very funny
The Salem witch trials were the fear and prosecution of people suspected as witches, the sentence being death. The people being prosecuted could be anything from a grandma you didn’t like, to a rival businessman. Men women and children were suspected of being witches. Many were killed, nobody was burned to death
The red scare was like that, except almost the entire country suspected people of being communist spies. The death sentance was used less, but it was an *entire country* compared to 3k people. It was a horrendous affront to people’s freedom of speech, as they could be prosecuted as a Soviet spy for any reason
On behalf of those who died in the Salem Witch Trials;
\- Giles Corey
Yes and Miller is Arthur Miller, the author of The Crucible, which is about the Salem Witch trials and was written during McCarthyism
TBF, probably could have just sent Vader to make a land invasion and be done with it by lunch.
Good thing the Nazis didn't have him
Did you just compared WW2 to Star Wars?
Did he just compare mass murdering nazis to mass murdering space wizards?
Star Wars is clearly based on WW2. The Empire is obviously modelled on Nazi Germany. They even have stormtroopers ffs
Did you just compare stormtroopers to stormtroopers? Clearly you've never seen Star Wars.
I'm a fan of Aphex Twin as well!
Of course you are. Those of us with superior robot ears have finer taste in electronic music.
There are dozens of us! Dozens!
Hey JP, how much do clothes cost in the Matrix?
Hey, I may not know how helicopters work, even though I own one.
I'm not afraid of techno, that is true.
Ok I don't get this one. Window licker? Window?
It's an older slur, sir, but it checks out.
Lol i scrolled so far past this one before it hit me
Window licker... now there's a slur I haven't heard in a long, long time.
Of course I know him, he’s me
Window Licker is an insult.
E.G. "You should get on the special bus with all the window lickers"
Please note i do not condone this at all however this was something that i have heard said many times on the playground as a kid.
To be fair, the residue on the window glass is tasty.
Put it on low heat, add a little flour, make a nice roux of it.
Tates like snozzberries!
Kid? I still hear this as an adult!
Did you really just compare the stuff you heard as a kid to the stuff you hear as an adult?
Compare? Hell, it's word for word. Sometimes they'll swap "special bus" for "short bus."
^(Edit: I just now got the joke -.- Well played)
Where I come from they say the 'blue bus'.
We called it the Minibah bus, because the regional facility for special needs education was called Minibah.
We were not kind children. German children are kinder.
Wow, I have never heard this. I was thinking it was a nonsensical, made up insult, rather than something with an actual origin. It gave me pause when I saw someone call it a slur and I had to go scrolling for an explanation. Thank you for providing one!
“Here’s some money. Go see a Star War.”
I guess dude thinks they're just called that by coincidence.....
You know what else I noticed in Jedi? They build another Death Star, right?
Now the first one they built was completed and fully operational before the Rebels destroyed it. And the second one was still being built when they blew it up. Compliments of Lando Calrissian. Something just never sat right with me the second time they destroyed it.
I could never put my finger on it--something just wasn't right--the thing is, the first Death Star was manned by the Imperial army--stormtroopers, dignitaries--the only people on board were Imperials.
So? So, when they blew it up, no problem. Evil is punished. Second time around, it wasn't even finished yet. They were still under construction.
A construction job of that magnitude would require a hell of a lot more manpower than the Imperial army had to offer. I'll bet there were independent contractors working on that thing: plumbers, aluminum siders, roofers. Not just Imperials.
In order to get it built quickly and quietly they'd hire anybody who could do the job. Do you think the average stormtrooper knows how to install a toilet main? All they know is killing and white uniforms. All those innocent contractors hired to do a job were killed--casualties of a war they had nothing to do with.
Well, I'm a contractor myself, I'm a roofer, and speaking as a roofer I can tell you that a roofers personal politics comes in to play heavily when choosing jobs.
For example 3 weeks ago I was offered a job up in the hills, beautiful house, tons of property, a simple re-shingling job. They told me if I could finish it in one day, I would double my price. Then I realised whose house it was. Dominic Bambino's! The gangster!
The money was right, but the risk was too high. I knew who he was, and based on that I turned the job over to a friend of mine. All based on personal politics. And the next week the Foressi family put a hit out on Bambino's house! My friend was shot and killed, didn't even finish re-shingling!
I'm alive because I knew the risk involved in that particular client, my friend wasn't so lucky.
Any contractor working on that Death Star knew the risk involved. If they got killed it's their own fault. A roofer listens to his heart and not his wallet.
I read Randall’s reactions in here even thought they’re not there. I actually said “Babyface Bambino?” out loud.
The roofer's delivery on this exchange comes off so campy, it fits perfectly with the absurdity of the conversation.
I am so glad I'm not the only person who immediately recognized the argument and prepared the Clerkz response.
Nah dude they blew it up on the weekend so all of the contractors were at home.
Union says I can't explosively decompress in vacuum unless it's on the schedule two weeks in advance. We can get a rep in here if you wanna talk to them about it, but I'm gonna have to pass.
Another propagandist from /r/empiredidnothingwrong I see... Shoo!
That's a real sub! Thank you for making my day!
I'd temper my expectations if I were you...
That sub is like fifty percent "funny the first time but gets old fast" reposts, thirty percent "look at this product", and twenty percent actual neonazis using the metaphor to dogwhistle.
Browsed for about a minute and was sorely disappointed :(
The reddit experience
Why would neo-Nazis be interested in fairy tale movie about people who are born with more powers than other people?
(Honestly, sometimes I don't know if /s is required or not)
Most of the projects would have used droids for construction. Labor is for killin.
So true. Human labor was minimally necessary at that point. The Empire used humans so they could be killed when they weren't useful
Probably illegal immigrant droids. None of them have any warranty papers with them.
Ugh. I'm not even supposed to be here today!
> innocent contractors
They were building something called *The Death Star*. They knew what they were doing. I'm a contractor, and I'm not exactly innocent, and if I was killed under similar circumstances I'd be kicking myself.
Maybe Palpatine had this whole thing running under the cleverly titled "Peace And Happiness Star"?
War industries are generally fair game as military targets..
So you work at the bomb factory or the tank factory someone might justifiably blow it up. A more accurate comparison might be warships in a shipyard.. fair game.
I bet he didn't even know they were called that at all.
Ah but you're not making the above argument, so that's all fine.
Stormtroopers is a well known space knight and fairy name.
The deathstar trench run is a rip off from the dam busters movie too.
It's also based on the Vietnam war. Lucas himself even said at one point that the emperor's name was Richard Millhouse Nixon, though this differs from what eventually became canon
Man, the super on the nose names in the scripts...
Did you know the death sticks vendor in episode one is named "douchebaggio"?
I didn't, but that's amazing
Also, wasn't that episode 2?
Hmm... yeah, looks like it was ep 2.
Also, name correction: it was ["sleazebaggano"](https://www.starwars.com/databank/elan-sleazebaggano)
Guess that's what I get for trying to remember things on hour 19.
Ah yes, stormtroopers, guns and tanks… classic fairy tale imagery.
Star Wars blasters are literally WW2 guns with extra scopes and macguffins glued on. Han Solo's blaster is a Mauser pistol with a scope stuck on the side and some kind of conical attachment on the muzzle. Imperial Stormtroopers use unmodified MG34s in the OT.
Also, the original rough cut of star wars (prior to special effects) used WW2 air combat footage for the space battle parts. When you see X-wings dogfighting like spitfires and laser cannons being operated like flak guns.
Fyi, macguffin's aren't just useless things, they're where a plot point is just getting the item that will solve all your problems.
I think they might mean "greebles".
Tbh it was practically a plot point that Stormtroopers couldn't aim...
The Mandalorian made a spectacular nod to that
Pssst.... you said macguffins but you meant greebles
We love greeblies! The best way to make anything look sci-fi
How though? It happen so long ago, in a galaxy far far away.
I think that's a question we're just going to have to leave to the academics and historians. Perhaps the story was left here, maybe to warn us of something?
Maybe we got this all wrong and WW2 was based on Star Wars. 🤔🤔
How do we even know about Star Wars without statues?
Also it's Based Akira Kurosawas The Hidden Fortress form 1958, like it's just it in space with some Genocied Sprinkled in.
Which is clearly a war movie, to support your point.
Some of it is. George Lucas described Star Wars as a reaction to the Nixon presidency, with the rebels embodying the Viet Cong and the Empire being America.
Though the Empire's aesthetics were absolutely modeled after the Nazis, as well as their more overtly evil bits.
Bro look at snowtroopers, they clearly have a certain inspiration not to mention that the empire don't allow any race other than humans to enlist (there are a few exceptions like Thrawn)
> the empire don't allow any race other than humans to enlist (there are a few exceptions like Thrawn)
To be fair, that's not really something explicitly stated in the movies. Although that may have changed with the newest trilogy, I didn't really like any of them enough to remember specifics.
It's not stated in the movies but it is a thing, they're not completely against non humans like I thought but they would definitely have a harder time and the empire definitely viewed them with a lot of suspicion
Where are you taking that ... thing?
*eNjOy YoUr BrIdGe, TrOlL.*
Also, the comeback with "knights using magic to save princesses" is also not too far because Tolkien was heavily influenced by his time spent fighting in war. It's WW1 not 2 but still.
"Hero's journey" is not more than a trope in my opinion and you can make it happen regardless of setting
I thought it was pretty clearly a protest of the Vietnam war with the Empire modelled on the US; especially given the time period of its release.
These things are not incompatible.
I saw a YT video some years ago where they explained Star Wars space combat was based on WW2 naval warfare, where small fast aircraft blew up old battleships and cruisers. Whereas more realistically it would be only big ships bc small ones would be destroyed by instantaneous (not slow) laser fire like in Star Trek.
Lucas used scenes of aerial dogfights from WWII movies as the framework for all his X-wing/TIE Fighter dogfights.
Yeah it's so obvious lmao
Did you just compare 2 things that aren't literally the same thing to each other? Next you'll be calling white supremacists Nazis.
Shouldn't the empire be the Americans since they are like the upperdog and have a super weapon?
People like that are story-disabled, in the sense that they can't perceive how storytelling works. To them, even cautionary tales have no value, because there's a talking wolf in them. **It's not about realism, it's about parallels to reality.**
That's on full display in this thread, where a bunch of people are saying Star Wars couldn't have been inspired by WW2 because all of the details aren't exactly the same. There's even one guy who said there was no invasion of Poland in Star Wars.
One of the things Reddit is the absolute worst at is understanding a comparison between two things that aren't identical.
"But that's like comparing apples to oranges!"
"Yes, and...? I'm making a list of fruits I enjoy and why I enjoy them. I like apples more than oranges, but I still like oranges. That's why I'm comparing them."
"But that's literally comparing apples to oranges! You can't do that! They're not the same thing!"
"But it's a *bad comparison* because those things aren't identical!"
Of course Star Wars isn’t inspired by WWII. At the beginning of the film it explicitly states that it happened long long ago in a galaxy far far away.
WWII happened less than 100 years ago right here on earth. Window licker.
I once had a friend say dracula wasn't about sex because vampires can't have sex. Yeah ok
Vampires can't have sex? That defeats the whole purpose of so many teen novels and series.
Quite the opposite actually. Teen girls get the romance and excitement but without the threat of sex which they would be shamed for. Those are old fashioned views but still very common in places where a very negative shame based religion is dominant.
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First, they’re clearly wrong,
Second, they’re also clearly wrong about the second point. How do we get dhampyrs if vamps can’t bang lol
Verisimilitude vs realism. Characters can behave like real people in unrealistic fiction.
This is just the best comeback! Not only a source containing the info, but a source about exactly your point in explicit detail. Did you get any response to that or did that shut him up?
He claimed the article didn't mention star wars. I have no idea why. So I posted a screenshot and he stopped replying.
Well, the level of maturity at least kept constant. Thanks for the update!
How does one double down against easily verifiable information?
Probably by not reading the article. I've seen so many arguments online where people keep arguing a point that was already covered in the source article.
It's actually pretty popular these days.
How can I get on this bandwagon?
I once got into an argument with some incel about Nintendo changing Peach to be taller than Mario. I explained that Mario has always been shorter than Peach and even Pauline with screenshots from DK & SMB. Instead of just admitting he was wrong, he deleted his entire Reddit account.
Oooh thanks for sharing the documentary link!
Love this and the *science behind star wars* doc that I can't find anymore.
It was cool to learn that the TIE fighter isn't just called that because it's shaped like a bow tie. TIE: Twin Ion Engine, useful for long haul space travel as is very fuel efficient. The downside being it's SLOW as fuck.
I thought tie fighters were specifically short range crafts though?
And they were very fast, so fast they were hard to hit with Corellian laser canon turrets.
Yes, in the star wars universe they were able to speed it up and only good for shorter distances. But in our world they would move at a snails pace (relative to a chemical propulsion system) and last longer than the person piloting it.
Deep Space 1 used an ion engine as an example.
Everyone knows WWII is based on Star Wars. /s
You are joking, but 100 years from now there will be master thesis explaining how WWV was deeply inspired by star wars... There would be no correlation of course, but there are thesis for everything
Good god, he really took Being Wrong on the Internet to a new level
He actually doubled down afterward and claimed the linked article doesn't mention star wars.
No helping some people, I guess
Wait till he finds out C-3P0 and R2D2 are based on the two bumbling fools in Kurosowa's samurai film *The Hidden Fortress*
You know things are getting serious when two people are calling each other polite and friendly names like "sir" and "bud".
Get ready, bub.
I'm not your pal, sir.
Please don't call me sir, champ.
And let's not forget Lucas watching WWII Pacific theater films with aerial dogfights, and go on to almost shot-for-shot remake them during the Death Star escape sequence in New Hope
And European war films too. Dambusters was mimicked for part of the bombing run.
I mean any two things can be compared ─ it's just a matter of the extent to which they're similar.
Apples and oranges both come from trees.
Yes, and at the point where they become too dissimilar it becomes a contrast instead of a comparison.
Did you really just compare contrasts and comparisons?
Thank you. I've always hated it when people say "Did you *really* just compare X and Y?" I don't care what X and Y are, there's no reason any 2 things shouldn't be compared. If you want to respond, point out the major differences between X and Y rather than acting mortified that a comparison was made in the first place. Saying things are similar in some respect isn't the same as saying they're similar in every respect.
People who just want to be King Correct on the internet *refuse* to understand the difference between "these things have a similarity" and "these things are the same."
Like your pedantic take there, but *actually* you can compare any number of thing and not just two.
You know, Hitler breathed oxygen too
do you have a source that the lifeforms in star wars breathed oxygen?
Window licker 😤
Yeah, it's definitely clear WW2 is is a HUGE influence on star wars, from names like "stormtroopers", to starfighter influences, to even the ideals by both sides. While there there are definitely similarities between the blowing up of Alderaan and the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, there are also very many differences as well.
A lot of Star Wars blasters are based off World War II era weapons as well. The E-11 used by Stormtroopers is a Sterling Submachine Gun, the DL-44 used by Han Solo is a Mauser C96, and the DLT-19 Heavy Blaster is an almost unaltered MG 34.
Dam, never know it was true
Derogatory term for those with mental development disorders, as some are prone to lick the car windows when traveling.
Ah. I didn't know what it meant, so thank you.
"Here's some money, go watch a Star War"
Why does it always take like 10 comments to get to that point? There's always the back and forth, then we get to the sources. I can't help but feel like people build these stakes up for no reason.
They want the other person to commit to their logic, so that they can't back away from it when they are inevitably proven wrong, and claim that they were saying something else. In other words, it's all about entrapment.
Why did you censor your own username?
Because while I thought the exchange was funny enough to be worth posting, I wasn't trying to be that guy who brags about how clever he is. I was hoping people wouldn't notice.
Bragging or not, that was great. Thanks for sharing.
When you dejectedly look at the multiple imperial officer cosplay uniforms hanging in your closet, realize that your weird space Nazi fetish cost a lot of goddamned money, and some asshole on the internet is pointing out some obvious parallels about actual Nazis that you don't appreciate.
I mean… many weapons from Star Wars are based off WW2 weapons and also the “Empire” was based off the 3rd Reich. So there are things you can compare.
I think I’d need to see why Star Wars was invoked in order to determine it’s appropriateness. Fictional stories can definitely be used to express a principle but I don’t know which principle is being expressed.
It sounds like a response to the common "using nukes on Japan was a good thing because more lives would have been lost otherwise."
Literally from a thread about exactly that.
Yes, and that makes it an inaccurate analogy. Alderaan didn’t *start* the war with a sneak attack like Japan did. Alderaan wasn’t holding on to every island and fighting to the bitter end like Japan was. Alderaan wasn’t abusing prisoners of war like Japan was. Evoking Alderaan was a stupid comparison.
The people killed in the nuke did none of those things, they were civilians. The rebels fighting the empire did do a lot of the things you mentioned but just like in ww2, the empire chose to attack a civilian target to send a message
Exactly. This comparison is ridiculous, because to be an analogous scenario, Alderaan would have to be an imperialist planet that was aggressively conquering its neighbors and had no intention of surrendering after the tide of war turned.
That's pretty much the exact opposite of what actually happened in the movie.
The destruction of Alderaan is the Holocaust. Millions of people killed to test a weapon and spread fear.
In fact, blowing up the Death Star is an excellent comparison to nuking Japan. It also had millions of civilians, but it had to be stopped.
If anything, Alderaan is an analogy for Pearl Harbor.
> There was no need to blow up the Death Star, the Rebellion murdered millions of noncombatants because they wanted to show off their fancy new Jedi
The usa had been supplying japan’s enemies for years, to say the least. Also, you’re on some special shit if you think the japanese civilians of the nuked cities had anything to do with it. Japan attacked a military post and the usa nuked two random civilian cities with almost no military forces in them.
The fact you see the nukes as justified tell me all i need to know about how good america is. At propaganda i mean.
How have they not noticed that the imps are space Nazis? Like how does that go over your head if you know anything about WWII!? I mean even the imagery is enough to tell you that, and that's without knowing about the wookies. Or the ughnauts. Or the remaining clone stormtroopers.
*looks at Nazi uniforms*
*looks at Imperial Officer outfits*
"I'm going to ignore that."
It's very weird to see the new generation consider Nazis and WWII as purely political grandstanding and not notice the direct inspiration and similarities in virtually all post-war media.
There was a time where it was a simply agreed-upon fact that Nazis were bad.
I'm conflicted. On the one hand I want to upvote for the clever rebuttals, but really this is more /r/MurderedByWords material.
Dude be like " did you really compare youjo senki to WW2"
Highlighting the WWII and Nazi parallels makes it extra interesting that Disney sells a bunch of intergalactic fascist merch to kids lol
There seems to be a trend where people think two things can't be compared. But that's how comparisons work - you take two things and see what they have in common. Literally any two things can be compared, it doesn't mean they have to be exactly the same or that they even have to have a lot in common.
Space combat is like based DIRECTLY ON WW2 NAVAL COMBAT. Right down to the spaceships "sinking" for some reason.
I wonder where the iconic view out of the cockpit of the Millennium Falcon comes from...
Anything can be compared, it’s just a matter of how similar they are that makes it a good comparison
I love that the twitter tactic doesn't work on reddit.
My college had a joint film history class about ww2 and Vietnam influencing Star Wars
What’d he say next? No way that dude’s taking an L
The fact that the bad-guy soldiers are called Stormtroopers? TOTAL COINCIDENCE YOU GUYS
You're saying that Star Wars is about War? In the stars? Ridiculous.
It must be miserable to exclusively consume art through surface level literalism.
It's even worse than that, since the main bad guy soldiers are *literally* called Stormtroopers lmao
I mean there is literally storm troopers, that is the most basic link between them
… did ep 6 have Vietnam parallels with the Ewoks?
Fiction can be inspired by two things?! Get the fuck outta here!