This ..

This ..


Republicans: “We have to stop paying bartenders so much!”


Bartending? Like that stalinist AOC did before she got radicalized into hating America? That's it! Reinstate prohibition! /s except its unironically half or more of the republican zeitgeist these days.


I wish reps like AOC were as cool as the Republicans make them out to be, here in the real world the way our govt is set up makes everyone fall in line for the rich.


Yeah and after hearing AOC refer Nancy as Momma Bear almost made me puke. Like wtf


Well, why bother making an enemy of a person who has the power in your party? Fight for the issues and push the agenda AOC. If Pelosi gets replaced with someone better, I'm all for it. But AOC has enough enemies to fight by being Progressive -- so her sucking up a bit doesn't really bother me that much. Keep your friends close and your enemies closer.


But that was the commenters point, that's the game you have to play if you want to survive in politics, but that's exactly the game that has gotten us to where we are in politics. Only mass organized civil unrest that threatens the existence of the entire system can pressure politicians to change the same system that has so reliably enriched and elected them in the first place. The people have more potential power than the political and ownership class combined, and organizing a radical and inclusive working class movement is the only way I know how to make that potential a reality.


Yeah, I've long since accepted if anything is to change we need a full blown Revolution, nothing is gonna change unless the entire working class gets uppity, but we're far too divided now for that to happen.


The right actually managed to overthrow the government. But all they did when they got there was take selfies and claim it wasn't them.


There’s a difference between working with someone and calling them momma bear 🤮




The power is in the structures. If it was possible to create a new party, this problem wouldnt exist, but first past the post prevents all progress in American democracy.


Yup, the policies to completely fix American democracy is simple, obvious, and proven to work by most of the European countries that already have these policies: ranked choice voting + proportional representation + universal mail-in voting + making Election Day a national holiday + overturning Citizens United. Boom, democracy fixed. Problem is, it's extremely difficult to get most of the current politicians who are on billionaire payroll to go along with any of this.


Theyre fine with prohibition, they have their moonshine.


It's depressing how accurate this is. Just like how they blame other companies for paying too much when they can't find enough people to work for minimum wage. Or claim welfare is too high when the tiny amount people get on welfare is more than they are willing to pay workers. They just want slavery again


> Just like how they blame other companies for paying too much when they can't find enough people to work for minimum wage. Wait, they really do this? Complain that other companies pay to much? I believe you, I'm just a glutton for disappointment. > Or claim welfare is too high when the tiny amount people get on welfare is more than they are willing to pay workers. This. Seriously, we all came out of that scenario saying "Wow, *this* is what it feels like to make your ends finally meet? This should be the standard." Yet they come out of it like "iT wAs ToO hIgH!" No, you're just used to keeping people in debilitating poverty, assholes. > They just want slavery again This is the truth


Indentured servitude is more COST EFFECTIVE than slavery. We have a system that keeps most people permanently in debt and debt is their jailer. Slavery would require food, room and board and then a guard -- who could not also be a slave. This works out better for them to keep squeezing the worker.


It's similar to people bitching about all the illegal immigrants "taking our jobs" but no one ever says shit about the companies hiring them. Yes let's blame the poor person trying to earn money to feed their family but ignore the company that's using them for tax-free labor. Nevermind that most of the jobs they're working we benefit from and would never do for the shit pay and working conditions.


I have brought this up to more than a few conservatives I know and they always look at my like I'm speaking Latin. Why the fuck would you be more upset about the desperate people taking jobs at well below minimum wage than you would be at the people hiring them? The people hiring immigrants are the ones taking jobs away from Americans and refusing to pay their share of taxes, but 5hen again I suppose thats just "good business".


I've actually gotten through to a few immigrant haters on one point. We tried offering higher wages to work farms. No Americans would take the job, at least not for more than a few days. And we all enjoy cheap (well not really, but affordable) fruits and vegetables. Without those immigrants "TaKiNg OuR jObS" we wouldn't have that. We can shut up about it, or we can enjoy a product shortage and soaring prices. Take your pick.




"We are confusing the working poor by giving them extraneous choices for Rent AND Food when it could be Rent OR Food!"


I know your joking. But its so believable. Some ass on fox news was literally talking about how "hunger is a great motivator" when speaking of worker shortages. "A hungry dog is an obedient dog" Those are direct quotes. Fucking death cult man.


... Jesus Christ, I am fucking seething. These people openly see us as chattel. > "A hungry dog is an obedient dog" Yeah and I'm hungry for some 1% steak...


Speaking to your point of chattel. I've also seen workers referred to as "human stock" on fox as well. If your interested I could post some links. They've been shouting the quiet part loud and from their rooftop helipads lol


That is fucking disgusting... Like, they make me sick every day, but straight up saying that? Fuck...


They must have no respect for their audience because they can say such things to their face and then direct their hostility at anyone NOT benefiting from what the Owner Class did to them. "Let's do some fake Christianity and support another corporate tool and oh, here's another segment on how socialist AOC is going to make us broke by helping poor people."


You forget, they all think they're just temporarily embarrassed millionaires. They like it because they think they're going to be the ones the dogs come begging to for food, not realizing they're the fucking dogs too.


When it went from “Personnel” to “Human Resources,” we went from “Employees” to “Human Stock,” just numbers on a spreadsheet. Why not just assign us numbers like prisoners?




"They are loyal beasts." "They WERE, now they're starving." \--Ramsay Bolton, about to find out how well this works out at the hands of Sansa Stark, Game of Thrones


Funny, that guy on Fox News was John Taffer, the guy from Bar Rescue. What a coincidence when we're talking about bartending. Anyway it says a lot that's the guy we call "successful." Worker exploitation and wage theft gets you a TV show and merit on Fox News. Meanwhile teachers perform the most necessary public service for children and live paycheck to paycheck.


>"A hungry dog is an obedient dog" Holy shit. And for me, desperation is not a great motivator.




Eat the rich.


While I think tip wages are an unreliable way to raise a family, as someone who has bartended for most of their adult life, it floors me how much money we make compared to "traditional" jobs. On a good weekend I'll pull $400-$600 in 3 days. Why teachers don't get the respect they deserve is beyond me.


We can always count on Republicans to focus on the real problems!


Bartenders are often paid less than federal minimum.




Can confirm. Bartender for 10 years, easy six figures working 4 nights a week at a high volume bar


Yup, NYC bartender checking in... $40 an hour is pretty standard for us. It was a slow week so I only made $30 an hour this week


But can also make surprisingly good money from their tips.


Many can make $50/hr or more


I took a pay cut and a huge increase in work hours to teach after bartending all through grad school. Quit after 3 years. I’m now an electrician making WAY more doing a much easier job with better benefits, and I can take off work whenever and for as long as I want. And I don’t have to bring my work home with me constantly. You want to fix education? Reduce the bloated administrations and use it to pay teachers more, so talented people have a reason to do the job beyond the goodness in their hearts.


>Reduce the bloated administrations and use it to pay teachers more, Yeah, I think that maybe there is some social engineering going on. An admin has to justify their position by creating more bureaucracy if they don't have enough to do. I remember seeing a teacher at the school filling out a form. "What are you doing?" I asked. "I'm recording what we taught to this student." "You do that for EVERY student?" "Yes." You'd think they'd have the honor system and assume most teachers would teach and you could at least track bad grades of students and point your attention there. I like the idea of teaching but there is no way I could handle the petty infighting, the stupid, brain-dead adherence to "teaching concepts" that suck all the fun out if it. Teaching Art or Science would be awesome or it could be Hell -- and it seems curriculum and bureaucracy would make it Hell. Because someone doesn't want our kids educated enough to question, just educated enough to buy into the economics taught by hedge fund managers and do the job that pays the rent.


Not only do we need to pay teacher. We need more of them. We can't keep sticking kids in classrooms with 25-35 kids. (I think I'm California you could have 40?) And expect kids to learn.


I'm a teacher. I love teaching. I think about quitting every day. I took a huge pay cut to become a teacher. I was willing to make that sacrifice because I love teaching so much. Little did I know that so many people hated teachers. We play big roles in conspiracy theories. People accuse me (a computer science teacher) of teaching CRT and going way too far with sex ed. People are angry with me because the state wants their kids to wear a mask. I wear a mask and am vaccinated and still have to get tested regularly, just for the privilege to teach the children of people who couldn't care less if I lived or died and have made it clear that they literally hate me because I'm a part of a system they distrust. I just got a raise. 31k per year (California). School admin knows I'm a single mom, my needs don't matter. It's all bullshit. I was watching yet another story about a parent physically attacking a teacher over school policies and I told my kids we should all just quit at the same time .. Not strike, just quit. Let's earn the hatred we get. Americans obviously don't care about the education, but take away the free babysitters and they will lose their shit.


31k? Honestly just leave. I love teaching my coworkers at work, but I would take a massive pay cut to teach full time and it’s just not worth it. If enough teachers quit, then we’ll have to pay teachers more to attract them. That’s how I got most of my raises - everyone on my team left for more money so my company paid me more to keep me. Money talks. You have to look out for yourself and your family first.


Money doesn't talk in an industry where there is no market mechanism due to the administrative structure. The political class is aiming to choke poor communities out of their good teachers.


Can you further explain this topic? What administrative structure is holding the market back? I'd love to learn more about this!


I’m guessing all raises have to go through a ton of red tape. It’s not a for-profit business which can sacrifice some of their net profit to increase wages - it’s a school district which gets all of its money from tax payers so every dollar has to be fought for. This issue is further compounded because many school districts are outright corrupt with administrators giving themselves huge raises and teachers getting nothing


Teacher from Baltimore City here. It’s illegal for teachers to strike in Maryland. Similar barricades in other places. Teachers can’t be offered more money because we as a country spend an abysmally small amount on education. Also, the money we do spend is often wasted on hiring more administrators. I can’t find the source, but I remember reading that admin positions have quadrupled in the past half century, while teaching positions have only doubled. The mindset seems to be “there’s a problem? Let’s create a position to fix it.”


The sad thing is that we actually spend more per student than almost any other country, and we still have underpaid teachers and underachieving students. All of that money is going to admins, they’re really a leech on society.


No. Admin do get paid well, but *most* that money is going to support children living in poverty. More successful countries have a stronger social safety net, but in the US the safety net for kids falls on schools. At the poorest school I've worked in we fed the kids lunch and breakfast (often the only food they got all day), ran a food bank for families, had people we paid specifically to get kids back in school when their parents stopped sending them (because they needed to babysit their younger siblings while the parents worked five jobs between the two of them to keep a roof over their heads, they were struck with sudden homelessness, being trafficked, parents getting deeper into drugs, parents getting arrested, family members having a health crisis and families just "not having time" to get their kids to school... the list goes on), on campus babysitting for young siblings and children of students, a clothing bank for kids whose parents couldn't afford clothes, and I can't remember what all other supports. American schools have become the social safety net for our kids. Because children whose needs are not being met cannot learn, politicians like to frame this as an educational issue instead of a social issue, but if you look at the countries doing well (Sweden, Finland, etc.) they actually take care of their citizens and have close to eradicated poverty through social support programs. Thats why their kids do better on less money. They're actually spending that money on educating kids, whereas in America, we spend a sizeable chunk of our education budget *just on keeping kids alive.* The dystopia is only boring if you don't have to live it every day.


To put a giant problem into basics, with the passing of the no child left behind law, it had forced mandates of certain administrative people that need to be there. You combine that with human nature of looking out for yourself, and all the budget goes to the top few admins who do the least. It's not that we don't spend enough on education, it's where that money is allocated. And it should start with the teachers and whatever is left goes to the admins. But that isn't the case. So they make 200 thousand a year whole the teachers make 31 thousand. So when it comes to budget decisions on the local level, the people would obviously like 6 more teachers than one more administrator, but the board votes for the administrator because you don't bite the hand that feeds. My personal solution, admins can only make x amount more than the teachers, so every time they get a raise the teachers must get a matching raise to keep the ratio.


have you looked into teaching at all? or how it's typically handled? there is no market. it's all schedules set by state/district/if you're lucky union. there is no individual merit evaluated. from the son of a teacher/husband of a teacher that quit after last year/future brother in law to a teacher


JFC I'm making a little under that as a walmart stocker in South Carolina


The issue is that the school system acts like an abusive relationship. People stay in it and deal with abuse and issues for the kids. I had to leave at 3:30 to make a Dr. apt (we are contracted from 7:45-3:15) carpool and busses were running late the whole week so I told administration about my appointment and asked what/who should I send my 2 kids to. I got a bold and red highlighted portion of the handbook saying that teachers cannot abandon their kids even after my time has passed I had to wait. I was only allowed to go after I met with (cornered) the principal told him why I had to go to the Dr. and he said I could go. He also said “well I sent that because everyone is skipping out early” to which I said “but I’m here until 4:30-5:00 near every day helping get car riders in the cars I don’t need to be told I have to stay I already stay longer than a lot of people” This is my last year as a classroom teacher unless I find a school i truly like.


(Canadian teacher here, who spent ten years teaching around the world) I am a teacher. It is a *job*. I am a worker. I have workers rights. And just because my employer doesn't want to abide by those rights, doesn't mean they get to ignore them. Just because parents don't want to abide by those rules doesn't mean they get to ignore them. I am damn tired of the 'do it for the kids' and the 'if you really cared you'd do this for free'. No. I am a professional, I have boundaries, and *this is a job*. I should be paid accordingly for my years of education and experience, and have a budget for classroom items and food. I should not be spending money from my own pocket on anything (except maybe treats and extras) for my students or classroom. Do I care about my students? Greatly. Do I do what I can to help and make their lives better? Yes. Do I spend my own time and money trying to make my classroom better, buying snacks for hungry kiddos, and advocating for my students? Damn right. But not at the expense of me. Or my family. Or the rest of my life. And currently, not for my health. (In my classroom I usually have a few different baskets of things. One basket for snacks like fruit, crackers, granola bars, and the like. One for extra supplies like pens, pencils, paper, etc. One for menstrual supplies. And one (the only one I don't have an issue paying for from my own money) of small puzzles, solo games, calligraphy pens, and brain teasers for when students are finished their work and don't want to read. It is not my responsibility as a teacher to make sure someone's kid is fed or has sanitary supplies. Do I provide these even though it irks me that I have to? Damn straight, because the kid shouldn't be suffering because of adult issues, but it's not my damned responsibility. Schools, and teachers, should be funded appropriately. Teachers should be well paid so we attract some of the best and brightest into the field. Teaching should be a difficult profession to enter. The requirements should be high. Pay then needs to reflect this. Class size and composition should be regulated. Teachers should be able to make professional decisions on curricula and how to best teach it. If we want good people in teaching, we need to make it competitive and appropriately paid. I apologize for the rant.)


Republicans want public education to suck, so they can make it privatized


A quick google search says the average teacher salary in California is 80k+. My wife who teaches in Georgia makes twice than 31k and Georgia is not known for supporting teachers. So something is seriously off. That is either a teacher assitant or preschool teacher or something.


Or a private school teacher, charter school teacher, teacher in their first few years of teaching, teacher whose district is in receivership, shitty contract renegotiations or a teacher in a more rural district. The average teacher salary in my state is also in the 80k range but I know very few who make that. Districts near the capital city make good money, and have higher living expenses, but teachers in the rest of the state average closer to 45-50k. Also, ageism is a thing and as teachers move up the salary schedule they’re getting booted out or not being rehired. Lots of teachers in my district don’t make it last year 4 where contract protections become stronger…so admins keep rotating new teachers through because they are cheaper and can be controlled easier.


You teach computer science, and you make $31k??? Computer science education is in huge, HUGE demand. If you have a master's, you can teach at a community college for double or even triple your current salary. If not, you can be a private tutor and again, make double your current salary. Or if you're ok teaching full-grown adults, teach at a coding bootcamp, pay range for that is $60k-$100k/year and are often fully remote positions. Source: I'm a coding bootcamp grad, current software engineer, and former CS tutor. Glassdoor salary range for Instructors at my bootcamp was $80-110k/year, and I made $30-$40/hour as a CS tutor. With CS teaching experience, you have MANY options and can do SO MUCH better.


I’m not a teacher but I worked at a water treatment plant back when Alex Jones was doing his “they’re turning the frogs gay!” thing so I have some experience with being a boogeyman. I just want to say I know how you feel. It sucks going to do a job where people think you are actively harming them or someone they care about when you know you spend all day doing everything you can to improve their lives or the lives of someone they care about. I know you didn’t ask for advice but I hope this helps anyway: sometimes you just have to focus on the good that you’re doing and understand that the stupids don’t understand just how much good you’re doing. Nobody will ever thank you, you only get recognition when it goes wrong but some kid cares a lot more about computer science because of you and that’s what you have to hold on to.


31k is crazy in California. If you had something else lined up I'd say quit. Like you said, parents won't give a shit until their free daycare is gone.


31k is pennies. I’d drop that job just out of principal.


*principle Sorry we’re talking about teaching, I had to!


31k?! I made more than that as a server in California. Even now, I work in retail at a shoe store in SC, and my hourly pay equals about 31k, which is just above a living wage for the area. You need to quit. That is ridiculous.


I'm sorry but this smells like bullshit. $31k isn't just *drastically* below the average starting teacher salary in California, it's just barely above state minimum wage for a full time employee. You're either not a full time certified teacher or you're lying.


Yeah. Base pay in my district is 50k in CA. We are also the lowest paying city in my county.


I feel you. I haven't gotten a raise in 3+ years because it's part of the state budget and my state can't agree on passing a budget.


Public or private? I’ve never seen that low of salary even in rural Tennessee


> I just got a raise. 31k per year (California). You're making slightly more then the half of what the average US teacher makes while living in a high COL area. You should really consider going to a different school district.


I live in Kansas, a place where minimum wage is still 7.25. I got a big raise after covid and I make pretty close to the same as you do a year flipping burgers at a local restaurant where my boss doesn’t even require a GED for employment... I only work about 30-32 hrs a week and I’m not a manager either.. I make 18/$ flipping burgers.. and even fast food and retail have bumped pay WAY up here (rural area). Walmart starts at 15$ and even the entry level fast food joints are up to 12$. You are being ROBBED plain and simple. 31k a year is a joke for someone as important and educated as a teacher! I’m absolutely livid for you... I hope you find another way to use your passion for teaching that will pay you what you fucking deserve. About half my friends that were teaching quit in the last year.. and I don’t blame them one bit! One became an online teacher after quitting her job at the school for lack of safety concerns. she loves it, it pays more, and she can work from home. I hope you can find something lucrative that you love.


31k? I live in bumfuck AL and make more working at a grocery store…. Please leave, it’s not worth it where you’re located.


Leave. Find a job at a place that needs to provide teaching and training instruction as part of its business offerings: SAAS companies, etc.. EPIC in Verona WI is an example. Very good training. I've even had trainers that were education majors. Much better pay and you still get to educate.


It’s always the uneducated giving teachers the most shit. There’s definitely bad teachers out there, but what can you expect when mouth breathers keep fucking around and voting in people that fellate their smooth brains?


Seriously I will refer you at work and get you a job. Probably can teach some of the developers a thing or two....


Jesus Christ only 31k in California? I get that you love teaching but you need to think of your dependents here. The rent in California is crazy enough it must be hell providing for your family.


31k. What the hell. I think starting wage here in Alberta, Canada is $60,000 plus solid pension and healthcare.


Does Cali not have a union, because 31K is a joke. I was literally gonna say "are you me?" But then I looked at our salary difference and 31k isn't even starting salary in MA.


Yo gtfo and just tutor for free in your spare time if you love teaching.


This is so sad. Teachers used to be so well respected but the right wing had been demonizing them for years. Nowadays with COVID and crazy right wingers threatening school employees over masks and vaccines and the nonexistent critical race theory, we'll be lucky to have anyone decent that's willing to teach.


One of the biggest issues in America IMO. In general we do not value teachers and K12 education. In many other countries Teaching is a professional industry like Doctors and Lawyers and teachers are revered and respected.




4.. Use diplomacy instead of military, it's just so much cheaper.


I know many people will find this shocking. But the majority of college educators get paid badly too. And more and more is being pushed on them. The average salary for a lecturer at a uni (non-tenured 4/4 teacher, the core of teaching college courses), make 40k in Texas. About the same as a high school teacher. In the past 5 years there has been a push to also make them act as direct mentors to their 300-1200 students, work with them to help them in times of mental need, and deal with the nearly 20%+ cases of students who need special help via accomodations. Understand, some of these accomodations add hours of extra work a week, per student. All in all, education in America is in dire need of reform. People just assume college profs make a lot since a handful of tenure profs do, and then most of the money goes towards sports, events, and administration. Source, college Prof that works 60-70 hours a week for similar pay.


It all started with the fight to even teach evolution in school, which turned into people going to private schools and or homeschooling leading to further underfunding of public schools. Where I live we can't even raise a half cent tax to pay teachers more.


Yes when the right started pushing 'school choice', which is basically state paid privatized education, that leached money from public schools. I'm fortunate to live in a city that did pass a school funding increase last year, but it's definitely not common anymore.


I'm a teacher and got into a discussion with someone a while back about student loan forgiveness. They were saying that if you go to college, then pick a major / career where you know you'll be making enough to pay off your loans. I was just like... That sounds great and all but then who would do jobs like teach where you aren't making enough? Still couldn't come up with a coherent response.


Well I know Bernie (and I) want college to be free to all, but I'd even settle for making it free for teachers at this point. Let anyone who wants to teach go to the free teachers college and then spend 5 years teaching in state. After that they can do whatever.


Well, that’s almost how debt forgiveness works for teachers


Except that almost no teachers actually are able to get the debt forgiveness


That’s why the pandemic has made me enjoy these bastard parents getting their kids full time. They rely on teachers as babysitters and then have the audacity to belittle the profession. I was hoping schools would close again so these parents would have to struggle more


> teachers as babysitters School went from bettering society to a kiddy warehouse.


I feel sorry for them working with basically a century old teaching model being clung onto by the administration, when kids carry around a super computer in their pocket. Just like most desk jobs, go to 3 days a week and be productive, instead of looking busy.


Ironic that the public schools were started by and championed by conservatives to better educate the citizenry on civics and understanding how our government works.


what i want to know is how do you get a bartending job with no experience? I guess it varies by state but in big cities its usually a much sought after job and they want experienced bartenders.


Start at a spot that mostly pours beers and basic rum and coke type drinks and as you learn more you can easily move into different bar tending positions


This Also, lie. I’ve been working FOH (Front Of House) in the restaurant industry for almost twenty years. First job I got I lied and said I had experience at a restaurant that was, by that time, closed and gave my girlfriends number as a “former manager” Though I don’t recommend starting as a bartender unless you really do just know what you’re doing. I mean a proficiency with inventory, an ability to work quickly and work well in the small environment that is a bar. Also at the very very least some basic knowledge of cocktails, beers, wines, and spirits. If none of those qualifications are something you have start as a server or a busser. Ask a lot of questions and learn all you can, Google anything you don’t understand. Then after your shift or while you’re hiding in the bathroom or crying in the walk-in fridge scroll through /r/KitchenConfidential to share your ~~misery~~ I mean hopes and dreams




My law firm actively calls out things on resumes like that though. We recently had someone list Korean as a second language on their resume, and we conveniently have a Korean on our department, so he came out and spoke to him. He wasn't hired.


“Fake it til you make it” was a lesson learned from my college program coordinator


I was under the impression that everyone lies on resumes and interviews. The only truthful thing about my resume is the company name and start dates lol


I have heard of specific instances, but I've never lied on my resume, and I don't think most people do. At a certain point your experience and professional network speaks for itself, I've never needed to lie.


Some places might hire you on as a barback and give you some training eventually


Careful with that though. Was in the industry and have many friends who are still in. Some places string you along and never train you. Had friends who were kept being told “soon we’ll train you to tend”. It never happened and after 2-3 years they bounced and had to start all over again at a new bar.


Get a serving or barback position and try to learn as much as you can from the bartenders. Most places right now are short staffed/having high turnover rates so just let your manager know you want to get on bar and you shouldn’t have too much trouble getting promoted. Or just lie on your resume about having experience and fake it till you make it. Or a combo of both. I cocktail served for a year to learn the basics about drinks and when I got passed over for promotion to bartending I just changed my position from serving to bartending on my resume and was behind the bar within a week at a new job and figured out what to do from my coworkers.


As someone very experienced in restaurant work... I don’t think you were fooling anyone 😂😂😂 they were short staffed


1.) start as a server 2.) don’t suck and grind at it for awhile. 3.) tell them you want to try starting bar shifts.


Right now it’s not hard if you have any restaurant/serving experience.


I started out as a server, no experience, at a corporate restaurant. Worked hard and within 6 months they asked me to bartend. Restaurants everywhere are desperate for staff right now. Get hired on as a server and let managers know you want to bartend and it’ll happen fast if you’re a good worker.


They're not serving fresh-made Long Islands at the country club bar, or the dive bar down on El Dorado Ave. It's gonna be Bud Lite, Busch Lite, and rum and coke. The craziest thing you'll need to deal with is "in a bottle or can?".


Former teacher, switched to dog training because I made significantly more doing way less work.


America: where teaching dogs has better career opportunities than teaching our children.


America: where dog teach YOU!


Any certifications required?


Same here. Heck, I made more money as entry level FOH staff (runner/busser) at 40 hours/week than I did as a public school teacher (~60 hours week). And having taught in both inner-city schools & more affluent schools, I can confirm that the teachers paid the least have the hardest job to do.


I've always wondered if the lack of pay is a result of a non existent or not very powerful teachers union. The teachers where I'm at get paid much more than bartenders along with full health insurance coverage that covers the teacher and a large chunk of their spouse's. They also have a teacher's pension.


NY has a strong teachers union but I'd argue they are still underpaid for what they have to do and put up with.


Am an upstate NY teacher. Can confirm. Our union is really good, but pay really depends on district. I just interviewed for a job thats the same distance from my house, but is in another district.... 20k raise in salary if I get it.


Good luck with the job. I hope you get it!. Teachers deserve so much more.


Rooting for ya. 🤞


A lot of times wealthy school districts want to keep the status of "best schools in the state" and are willing to pay the costs of excellent teachers through higher property taxes. It benefits all of them since all of their houses are now worth a lot more and all their kids get into the best colleges. Poor school districts have families struggling just to pay their property taxes, and those that do not have kids do not want to pay for families that do. Some of the families that do have kids, are too beaten down to care and their kids probably can't afford college anyway. Yeah they have bad schools but property values and cost of colleges are not suddenly going to change from decently paid local teachers, and a lot of them are renters and landlords rather than single family homeowners. Teachers union is a huge thing also, yes. All unions have been beaten bloody the past 40 years including most teacher unions. I believe a lot of red states spent the past few years trying to make it illegal for teachers to strike, which pretty much defangs the unions. Rich districts never have to strike. I am sure it is a mix of reasons, but I am pretty sure poor districts pay their teachers a lot worse than rich districts regardless of unions. State and federal funding helps but local funding probably makes a big difference.


This is probably has the biggest factor in which districts pay teachers decent, and which do not: >According to Education Week, public school funding comes from a variety of sources at the local, state and federal level. Approximately 48 percent of a school’s budget comes from state resources, including income taxes, sales tax, and fees. Another 44 percent is contributed locally, primarily through the property taxes of homeowners in the area. The last eight percent of the public education budget comes from federal sources, with an emphasis on grants for specific programs and services for students that need them. https://www.publicschoolreview.com/blog/an-overview-of-the-funding-of-public-schools


Yeah I've heard of some teachers making upwards of 80k but I dont think it's uncommon amongst public schools, especially inner city where the jobs are more strenuous.


I teach high school in the Northeast and make close to that with a Master's Degree and 14 years experience. I make enough to live comfortably along with my wife's similar income. I used to teach in Boston and most teachers there with Master's Degrees easily make $100k/year. Not all teachers are paid peanuts. States with strong teacher unions pay their teachers a decent amount, get good healthcare, 15-20 days of sick time/year and strong job security. Our union negotiates to get consistent cost of living increased every year and we'll also all retire with a nice pension. Saying how bad teaching is a popular topic but isn't all that true. Besides making a decent living, I only work 38 hours a week and only work 180 days a year. I love teaching and think its a great gig.


I'm glad that's been your experience! Where I'm from the difference between the suburbs and the city can be around 20k.


>I've always wondered if the lack of pay is a result of a non existent or not very powerful teachers union. As a building rep for our union I can 100% say with certainty that this is the problem. Plus any organizing that we do is instantly demonized by the conservatives in our district. Teachers union shows up to say that we need to do a virtual open in the fall of 2020? "Teachers unions are politicizing the pandemic for their own agenda!" Plus many states, have an official ban on public-sector employees collectively bargaining through their local unions. Virginia *literally* just this year [gave the power back to unions for collective bargaining. ](https://www.veanea.org/o2b/)


60 hours a week?


My wife is a teacher, they are always putting in extra unpaid time. Grading, back to school night, fundraisers, lesson planning, helping students, helping coworkers, dealing with crazy parents, training, etc. Yesterday was back to school night wife went in at 7 am came home around 9 pm.




Can confirm as husband of a teacher - the hours fluctuate, but more often than not 50-60 hour weeks through the school year


The teachers in my family work way more than 8 hours a day


My spouse was a middle school math teacher. She would get to school between 7:00-7:30 and leaves at 4:00 most days. There was almost never a real lunch break because teachers rotate on lunch duty and the days she doesn't have lunch duty she would have kids coming in for help at lunch. She'd consistently have about 10 hours of grading and at-home planning per week, which is usually how she spends her entire day on Sundays with football on in the background. Throughout the week I'd say that she averaged about 20-30 minutes a night responding to parent/kid messages and there is usually one day a week where she stays at school an extra hour or so to catch up. Not quite 60 hours a week, but she would easily go over 60 on the weeks where there are parent conferences and she was at school until 9 pm back-to-back nights. She has a Masters and 10 years experience, which got her salary up to $39k per year in her last year at that district. She went back to school for counseling and left that job as soon as she could. Fully burned out on teaching after 10 years. I'm so fucking happy she's out of it. I think there are some subjects where teaching isn't a huge workload, but for the ones we have shortages of, it is nearly impossible to be an effective teacher without working a bunch of extra hours on top of your paid time.


People really dont understand how many hours teachers spend working once they are back home. Grading tests, preparing for lessons/events, homeroom stuff, reports and other paperwork for school, random parents calling you and much more. There are some days where it's more time working at home than at school.


I can't believe I wanted to be a teacher, this sounds like way more work than i thought.


It's also weirdly fulfilling. I work in an inner city school and have been hella burned out the last two days due to the work, some shitty fellow teacher interactions and the students since they're 7th graders and that year is literal hell (mind you. Just week 2) Then in back to school night I had a couple students say that i was their favorite and they love that i dress up for lectures (history) and that I'm their favorite. Then more kids told me that because they were legitimately bummed my class was shorter that day due to the holiday and us leaving early. Plus hanging with them at recess. And like a few other things. I make 51k. I'm exhausted. I hate everything and am super grumpy. But. Like. Those little assholes fixed my entire last two weeks in like an hour. Like there's really nothing like that y'know? My life is that Simpsons Do it For Her poster. But do it for them. I hate it but like. They matter y'know?


Bartenders don’t get a pension, health insurance, sick days (depending on state), PTO, or union protection, though. She’s taking more home as a bartender, but I don’t think we’re looking at the total compensation package accurately.


Depends on your district though. No way would I be making close to the same amount bartending. But yeah, this job causes burnout like no other. The mental and emotional exhaustion cannot be overstated.


I'd argue that it depends on the bar. High end bars. Busy bars. You can make over 100k part time.


I would have been a great teacher. Did it for a year, then got laid off. Teachers with more seniority kept their jobs. They were terrible. I got more education and moved on.


What did you end up doing?


CIA agents never tell


I am iron man


I will admit, I’m near the top of the pay scale in MA and I’m making good $. The downside is I can’t move out of district or into another job without making significantly less $. Some of us want to try something new, but we’re stuck. They call it being “priced out”.


Cut the police budget and send that money to the schools.


better educated and less impoverished populations commit less crime. if only the asshats could get that through their thick skulls.


Oh. They know that. But more crime = more criminals = more slaves for for-profit prisons. Look into the school to prison pipeline. Plus, better educated population are more critical thinkers and we can't have people thinking critically about the things the government are doing. ETA: that impoverished populations are people working harder and longer for less money, doing the shitty jobs in society. Too tired to rebel, paying for convenience, and living paycheck to paycheck so no chance they'll risk anything. Lack of money means easier to control. They know exactly what they are doing. It's a feature, not a bug.


What? So you can "indoctrinate" the children with critical thinking skills!?




Let's see - [every dollar spent on education returns $1.30 in economic improvement.](https://peopleforeducation.ca/our-work/public-education-a-high-return-on-investment/) In contrast, [police cause crime, and we aren't even studying them enough to know how bad they are](https://www.currentaffairs.org/2020/08/why-crime-isnt-the-question-and-police-arent-the-answer). Every illegal search is an illegal assault, but they aren't in crime statistics. Weird how police get to choose what crimes to report and that directly indicates how good of a job they're doing. Cops don't seem able to stop traffic deaths which kill about [15,000 Americans a year](https://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/animated-leading-causes.html). Investing in mass transit would cut that number - things aren't looking good for the police ROI. Air pollution is often caused by coal plants, but police aren't installing coal scrubbers or building wind farms. Coal burning kills [30,000 Americans a year](https://ucsdnews.ucsd.edu/pressrelease/shutdown-of-coal-fired-plants-in-u.s-saves-lives-and-improves-crop-yields). Cops almost never investigate wage theft, even though it dwarfs other kinds of theft. Kind of seems like cops are a drag on the economy, and we need less of them. Even if you think they are useful for "solving" violent "crime", it's worth noting that 96% of a cop's time is spent on responding to non-violent crime. You could cut police budgets to 10% of what they are today and still double the time they spend on violent crime.


I quit my teaching job with *literally no backup plan* because it just wasn’t worth it anymore. Did instacart shopping for a while and managed to bring in similar money. Now I’m joining the Army as a musician. My wife still teaches, she works way harder now than she did before Covid. It disgusts me the way teachers are treated in this country. It should disgust everyone. Of course if it did we wouldn’t be having this conversation in the first place.


You gonna play a flute while they march into battle?




Dope, that's a way more intimidating instrument. Make sure you let the drummer boy know who's the boss.






Nailed it. That’s what we do!


A proper battlefield flex.


How does one join the Army as a musician? I now they have choirs and bands and whatnot, I remember a few of them visiting my high school.


So there’s three steps! 1. A pre-screening audition. This isn’t to decide if you are going to get in, it’s to decide if they’re even willing to talk to you. 2. If you get through that, you go through the regular enlistment process. ASVAB, physical, personality testing, etc. You have to be fit to serve as a soldier to be considered for any other role. 3. If you pass step 2, you get to take the real audition. There’s two components in the audition, a prepared music list and a “quickly prepared” round. You get the “quickly prepared” 24 hours before your audition date, basically the premise is to see how you can handle being called at the last minute to play a gig. You get evaluated on your audition, your results in step 2, and other factors (like whether you can play two instruments), they “rack and stack” you with every other person in the country who auditioned on your instrument, and they pick the top few people to join the band. In my case, I was one of two people nationwide selected to join the Army as a tubist. Ship out for basic training in October!


Teachers here in nyc make a decent amount after many years, more than most other places and get a pension with excellent benefits. I bet elsewhere the pay sucks, though their pay in NYC is still too low for the job. What sucks is that she won’t get healthcare or retirement benefits.


I quit my defense attorney job in the United States and moved to China to be an English teacher and work a whole lot less. I get paid more and blamed way less. And my student loans...yeah. My whole family is teachers in the U.S. too, and I don't have to put up with any of the usual teacher bullshit. Paperwork is low. Deadlines are long, and (with a few clearly understood limits) I pretty much get to teach whatever I want, and people love it. Oh, and they pay my rent. You think you know how badly you are getting fucked in the U.S., but you have no idea. Nobody is asking about a lawyer shortage I suppose, but with mass incarceration and over policing, maybe they should be.




That’s all done now though. CCP is getting of that whole industry.


Nah English teacher positions will always be pretty cushy, but I'm sure native Chinese teachers are similarly poorly paid with similar terrible conditions. Difference is that English teacher position is for kids that are going to be businessmen and no expense is spared there. Same capitalist rat race, just see any private school here teaching Chinese.


As a nurse, I feel this. I honestly hope nurses realize how little rights we have and although we have big hearts and understand we are important.... The world/ government will never see that.. I wish every nurse would just walk out. It would be terrible... but the trap is worse. I'm glad you found happiness.. it makes me so happy.


I wanted to be a teacher so bad throughout high school. I always looked up to them and only had one bad teacher, but it was her last year before retirement and I'm pretty sure she had just checked out. I job shadowed a teacher in my senior year and started reading all these horror stories, so I changed and went into health sciences. A few years later my gf at the time became a teacher and words can't express how glad I am that I didn't do that. It's such a sad state of affairs when our educators work more than double what I do, get paid half, and are educatingg the next generation to take over this country. It should be the opposite.


My wife's a second-year teacher. This year she has 30+ students, a bunch of staff kids (employees get to pick what teacher their kids get), and the most students on learning plans (or whatever my wife calls them) out of her grade. This isn't even a trouble school or anything. It's an affluent area. The whole neighborhood is filled with giant houses. And yet they still apparently don't have the money or resources to have reasonable class sizes or, y'know, pay teachers a respectable salary. Plus, in a neighborhood like this, you get super entitled helicopter parents, which only adds to my wife's stress and workload. Our city is one of the worst as far as teacher pay keeping up with the cost of living. It's a stupidly thankless job for something that's so obviously crucial to our society. Both our city and the Biden administration announced some measures to improve retention, hiring and continuing education, but as far as I saw, there wasn't something as clear as PAY THEM MOOOOORE. Some of those measures might eventually amount to that, but it's so frustrating when it feels like they'll always take the most indirect path to get there. In the meantime, teachers are going to keep burning out and changing careers.


Yep. Teachers in the affluent district near me almost all have to commute more than an hour each way because they simply cannot afford to live in the area. The pay is about the same (lower even for teachers with less than 7 years experience), you deal with some of the worst helicopter and entitled parents I have ever seen, and most stay simply because they get a little more spending money for classroom supplies. Not hard when all the neighboring districts give you nothing to actually create a classroom.




Jeez. Where. I'm a multi year vet and barely scrump 50k in Boston


I was trying to get into teaching in 2019 as there are some great programs offered in Utah to get you your teaching license. I got a job offer at a charter school as a teachers aid for $13 an hour on a part time contract with no benefits. But they said “don’t worry, you will probably have your own class of second graders and be working 40 hours a week” I noped the F out of there. Was not about to work full time on a part time contract and get thrown into the fire with no training or support 😂


This is completely ignoring all the complexity, like retirement, healthcare, summers off, stable employment, a career with a future. If you’re a 40 year old bartender you’re probably not going to be able to transition to teaching, but if you’re a 40 year old teacher the brutal service industry will take your application.


I left teaching about ten years ago and ended up as a programmer. I was shocked at how much better my retirement and healthcare plans were after leaving, because I'd always heard about how teachers have such good benefits. I guess in comparison to fast food workers their benefits are good, but as a teacher my vision plan didn't even cover a pair of glasses. Also summers off are a joke. I was still required to come in for regular planning meetings, attend mandatory professional development, help with summer school, etc. They didn't even pay for the hotels or food for those conferences, so I lost money in the summer just to keep my job. I wouldn't call it a career with a future. I was making 31k and could barely afford rent on a 1-bedroom apartment while keeping my car running. Dividing out my pay by hours worked, it was a worse deal than when I was 16 doing shifts at McDonalds. I quit because I couldn't envision a future for myself where I had the time and money to ever have a home or a family. My students were great, and I wish the world were different such that it all could have worked out, but I have never once regretted leaving that horrible situation.


I'm a 38 year old former food service worker, transitioning to teaching. I agree with your first point. I'm switching to teaching because I care about all that stuff (especially retirement). I just don't see how the second paragraph relates. A not insubstantial numbet of workers in the service industry already have a college degree and 48 states have alternative teacher certification programs. The point a post like this misses is the inability to meaningfully take part in society with a service job. I'd regularly grind out 10 hour shifts, inconsistent scheduling makes it difficult to plan anything, getting time off in an industry where being understaffed is a business model is frustrating at best, and the money hours for tipped employees are at odds with the needs of a family with kids. Add in no moving up without mandatory overtime, no healthcare, no paid time off or sick leave, and you just end up hating the whole world.


How did you manage to take a crooked screenshot??


*15 fewer hours…


Yeah and she was an english teacher lmao


Explains why nobody thanked her.


I was hoping she didn’t teach English...Is this a fact? No wonder kids think it’s ‘could care less’...


She was my english teacher in high school, no joke


What I was looking for


We’d be friends


Thanks, Stannis.


Former teacher of 10 years here. Found a job I love that only pays $19/hour and still making significantly more than I was teaching.


we could pay 200k and kids still wouldn’t give a shit and be assholes


To be fair she might have been a shit teacher


Is that because of tips? I don't understand , send help


Probably because teachers are grossly under paid, and also tips.


Teachers make that little. My first job out of college was opening mail in a mailroom and I started out making as much as my mom who had been teaching for 8 years. I got a promotion in a year and made a decent amount more. It felt so wrong honestly. My job was easy too especially compared to her responsibilities. edit: typo


Am I fucking stoned? Why is this post tilted slightly?? Why is there not a single comment about it???


Thank you I thought I was going nuts


Same here. r/midlyinfuriating material


I was asked to return to work at 16$ an hour as a preschool teacher. (Minimum wage here is 15) I told my boss she has to pay me more and she hasn’t called me back since.


The countries that have the best students (as test scores are concerned) have the highest teacher salaries and requirements to be teachers. Just a weird coincidence. I'm sure that won't have a negative impact for the future of your country or anything oh wait shit


Same with nursing. Due to stress and exhaustion I made a mistake during the pandemic and instead of treating it as a learning opportunity, because i am a relatively new nurse, they fired me. I went to work stacking shelves three nights a week in a super market and I make more money with no stress. And yet, a year down the line, I’ve just accepted a new nursing role in dementia care. I must be mad


UK here. I quit cover teaching because I couldn't balance it agiant the cost of nursery fees. I work three days a week in a supermarket now and I'm only £200 worse off than when I worked a full teaching week. I honestly didn't realize how miserable and stressed I had been until I got out of teaching. I deal with the occasion Karen but they have nothing on thirty teenagers who all just want to see you fail.