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Teachers union "not convinced" social distancing can safely be cut to 3 feet

Teachers union "not convinced" social distancing can safely be cut to 3 feet

AgreeablePie

I wouldn't be any more convinced than when regulating authorities said it was safe for medical personnel on covid wards to reuse one mask all week... when supplies became scarce. It sure seems like authorities have been finding things "safe" depending on how convenient it is to do so.


HiaQueu

Seems like an arbitrary number with no basis so they can send kids back to school since its been nothing but "At Least 6ft" preached for how long from the CDC?


thejakeizreal

Is 6 feet not also arbitrary though? Other countries have different distances


belizeanheat

It could be partly arbitrary but it's certainly based on the distance in which people can reasonably expel airborne substances from their nose and mouth.


BostonFoliage

3ft is new guidance from CDC based on the studies they ran. The fact that Teachers Union are not convinced in CDC guidelines is irrelevant as far as public health goes.


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[deleted]

Now they say “impending doom.” It’s very inconsistent


Playboi_Jones_Sr

The CDC has suffered from unprecedented leadership difficulties the past few years. Between the chaos in the last admin to the current leadership making absurd comments like "impending doom" (seriously, that is NOT what you say in a leadership position like that), it's tough not to tune out some of the things said by the organization. It's sad, CDC used to be one of the flagship gems of the US.


soonershooter

Don't sweat it, at least not anymore than someone that works as a first responder, or in a grocery store, hospital, etc.......every single public school employee will be vaccinated before end of summer, if that late. At which time, kiddies 12 & up will be getting jabs, too.


Chartreuseshutters

This Week in Virology actually discussed this in episode 735. I highly recommend listening to it before forming an opinion. They also reference other studies that are of higher quality that disagree with the CDC’s perspective that we safely can decrease the distancing of kids. This seems to be a primarily politically-motivated change in order to allow full school capacity.


allbusiness512

Because there's contradictory advice. You cannot say that everyone needs to masks, children need to mask, social distance, and then turn around and say gather 30+ kids in a room and have at regular school.


RubyRhod

You're arguing semantics and so are the politicians. It's not any safer at 3ft than it is at 6ft because the 6ft doesn't do anything without ventilation, which almost all schools have bad ventilation.


criesinplanestrains

There have been a number of studies now on this and they all show there is no difference in infections between 6 feet and 3 feet. 6 feet itself in context with covid.


[deleted]

That's because 6 feet is also ineffective for airborne spread.


financequestionsacct

These discussions make me so grateful my son is not in school yet. I'm so lucky he is at an age where I can stay home with him, because I really think I would feel helpless and unsure of what to do to keep him safe if he were in school.


sealovespdxME

I mean, if he was school aged and you didn't want him AT school, you'd just keep him home for online education.


financequestionsacct

Oh for sure, I'm just feeling grateful I didn't have to make that decision. He was a newborn when this started, so he didn't have school friends and enrichment activities that I'd be taking him away from.


a_Left_Coaster

At this point, it's a struggle to believe the CDC is following the science 100% of the time and not bending to pressure.


ocreedmore

It wasn't actually safe at 6' of course it isn't any better at 3'.


ReadThisIFYouWantTo

Yea, at least 6 feet required schools to do something though, and indirectly limited the number of students in small classrooms. Most desks in schools are already 3 feet apart, so the 3 feet rule is kind of pointless.


dVwYVx7WoiQk4oz

Isn't that the point? Also it is odd to see 3ft guidance from a CDC director that is "scared."


Sirbesto

In fairness. The WHO said that 3ft was fine back in Jan. 2020. Most doubled it. Objectively a safer distance is like 30ft. But can't run a society that way, so 6ft was settled on.


barryriley

The WHO have absolutely zero credibility though


Sirbesto

You can say that now. But January 2020, was a different animal. Most people were in denial of Covid back then. I have not trusted them since I watched the very first Covid Presser on January 1st or 3rd, where I witnessed Tedros, the Director of the WHO suck on China so hard that it put me off to the point of having to do research and finding out that China pushed for Tedros to get the job over Navarro back in 2017. Why? Tedros is an open supporter of the One China Policy. Navarro was not. When he did it a 2nd time at the next presser, it was then is when I realized that the WHO should not be believed carte blanche.


SVAuspicious

>I have not trusted them Agree. WHO failed on Ebola and Ziki before COVID. We should not confuse the potential of a world health organization with the reality of WHO. WHO is not credible.


Sirbesto

Fair. But the WHO has historically made many highly positive changes to/for humanity. I grew up highly respecting the institution as flawed it may have been. However, in the last to decades they really have stumbled. Which is sad to me. I think they still serve a purpose, but as I said, I have to now, for a long time, double check the academics and facts of whenever they make an assessment and juxtapose them together to filter out the ever growing political bias. Edit: Why am I getting downvoted for stating historical fact? Reddit is weird.


CoffeeContingencies

This is all based on Massachusetts who have had 3ft guidance since September... and hybrid. Most schools still used the 6ft.


EntertainerSpare3751

Colorado uses 3ft in schools


[deleted]

I though an MIT study showed ~30 ft


looktowindward

>to do something The goal is simply to "do something"?


MoneyBall_

Bake em away, toys


Brother_Mother

This is the answer


penguina83

Yeah ok, I’ll be here in the hospital using a bandana as PPE if you need me... because the CDC said that was acceptable too...


psu0816

Do you know how outdated the “6 feet” rule is. Based on a study from the 1800’s and finally proven in the 1940’s. I honestly thought 6 feet was based on covid studies. It’s frustrating that you have to research to find out this information.


Lord_Ka1n

Oh, so NOW we shouldn't listen to the CDC.


allbusiness512

Because this advisory on schools directly contradicts everything they've said so far. They said don't gather large number of people that are unvaccinated, social distance at 6 feet when possible, try and use strong ventilation when possible, etc. But then they are going to turn around and say that in person learning is fine even at 3 feet, as long as masks are worn. Despite the fact that anyone who works in education knows how poor most ventilation systems are in most schools, and that there's no surveillance testing done in a population that thus far we know mostly spreads through asymptomatic transmission. Teachers are pissed because not all of them have been vaccinated yet. If you're vaccinated, you have no excuses. If you aren't though, you are well within your rights to question the CDC since it's completely contradictory what they are saying. They want 30+ kids in a room who are vectors for asymptomatic transmission (especially older secondary age students), but then tell everyone else to not gather or indoor dine even when vaccinated. Come on.


Winnes0ta

Get with the program, we're only supposed to listen to the CDC and follow the science when they're talking about "impending doom". When the science says that we can roll back restrictions that is clearly fake news.


HerbertWest

Isn't that just... pretty much the normal distance people stand from each other? (Unless they're *close talkers*...ugh).


nyyforever2018

Yes. Getting inside of 3ft when you are not in a stadium or something to talk to someone would be getting a bit creepy.


Teegurr

That's a good thing!


silver_quarter

The week this got implemented in Ohio my little brother got exposed to COVID by some kid sitting right next to him, 3 feet away. Doesn’t seem like he contracted it though.


narcogen

The study compared rates of infection between schools based on their distancing requirements with no regard to what distancing was actually practicable in each individual setting. So, take a school with large classrooms, wide corridors, and currently practicing hybrid virtual/in-person learning with capacity limits. Impose a looser distancing standard, and voila! It's no less safe! Says nothing about whether or not actually maintaining such a distance is safe. To do that, you'd have to instruct teachers and students to maintain a distance of *no more than 3 ft* while masking and then measure infection rates. That would be ethically irresponsible. This study does little to ameliorate the impression that the CDC is bowing to pressure to give schools cover to open without expensive measures to allow for 6 ft distancing-- measures that in some schools would never be possible at 100% normal occupancy.


Mindraker

The 3' is bulldinky just to get schools open again. The virus isn't going to behave just because kids are sitting neatly at their desks.


oldgreymutt

At this point, I’m cautiously optimistic we can return to “normal,” but kind of hope there are those thinking about worst case scenario, in case this thing is far from over. Packing kids into school buildings may no longer be a wise choice for the foreseeable future.


[deleted]

Just imagine if the previous Presidents administration announced that 3 feet is now safe and schools must reopen. The media would’ve immediately announced it’s all a coordinated move to undermine Covid efforts. But the next President does this and it’s all fine.


prawnbay

This post is literally showing how it’s still not fine


whydontyouloveme

Seriously. I see arguments like “but of course the media will never cover this” in comments on New York Times articles.


desenagrator_2

OP mentioned the media, not reddit.


prawnbay

Is CBS News not the media?


TotalInstruction

"it's all fine" Well, except that the teacher's union is complaining about it and the press is reporting it as controversial. ​ "schools must reopen" I missed the part where President Biden ordered that "schools must reopen" (as if he had that authority). You can't say "trust the CDC! The CDC is staffed with experts who have our best interests at heart!" and then ignore them when they make recommendations that you don't like. Whether they're right on this, I don't know. I'm more inclined to trust the CDC when the person overseeing the executive branch is not calling for everyone to take hydroxychloroquine based on comments by a French crackpot, or saying that doctors should look into sunshine and bleach as COVID treatments, or ignoring and lying about the pandemic for weeks and complaining about masks.


KatSouthard

Amen


Elegant-Rectum

I really do hate the fact that people can’t just wait this out until we are in the clear. This rush to get back to school and work prematurely is going to continue to fuck us over and over again. If we just wait it out until we are in the clear, then we can go back to actual normalcy and not have to worry about 3ft vs 6ft of social distancing.


camelCaseCoffeeTable

I mean work is one thing, but school is completely different. Adults are done growing and forming their personalities, children are growing quick. I’m shocked more people on Reddit aren’t concerned with this. Children in school over the past year have missed essentially an entire year. That’s going to lead to major issues. Younger kids are learning to be afraid of people and crowds. Middle school kids are missing critical learning phases. Kids in high school and college are a year behind where they should be. To say “just wait” is to ignore the major problems that missing an entire year of school and development is going to cause our nation (and the world.) Especially when the science just doesn’t support schools being a dangerous place for transmission, there have been no surges linked to schools re-opening. Children are much better equipped to deal with COVID if they catch it than adults are


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camelCaseCoffeeTable

Granted, I haven’t done much research on this, but I think they would for many reasons. This virus has become politicized to a degree it never should have been, and consequently, left leaning individuals (of which I consider myself one, so I’m not harping on anyone here, just recounting a sad fact) see the virus as more dangerous than it is. Realistically, COVID is a non-issue for young children. They’re barely affected by it. The same parents taking their kids out of school probably won’t get them a flu shot, even though that’s deadlier (for young children). There’s a lot of fear around COVID, some of it justified, some of it not. I think the research is showing that we are doing more harm than we are good by keeping children out of school. Maybe they haven’t lost a year, literally, but they are absolutely behind their peers who are attending school in person, and not just from an education standpoint, socially they’re behind too as they’ve spent a year inside during their formulating years, while their peers have remained immersed in the social aspects of school. It’s a big reason a lot of poorer neighborhoods are frustrated: rich families are sending their kids to private schools where there’s in person learning, while poor families remain in the public school system and remote learning, leading to further gaps along the rich and poor.


sicsempertyrannus_1

Lots of people on reddit hate kids.


jbchi

The majority of Reddit is still in school.


sicsempertyrannus_1

And thus looks down on younger kids with disdain so as to separate their “mature” selves from the “annoying little shits”.


Lord_Ka1n

It's been a year of you people saying "Just a little longer", and every time someone sees a light at the end of the tunnel, you build more onto it. Of course people are done waiting.


WingyPilot

Is getting everyone (16+, preferably soon 12+) access to a vaccine too much to ask? I don't think that's changed a bit. Just because you're tired of waiting and impatient doesn't change the facts. Do you hold Christmas in October because you're tired of waiting?


Lord_Ka1n

Yes, that is far too much to ask. Whatever happened to flatten the curve? This was only ever supposed to be about keeping hospitals from overflowing.


Rtn2NYC

Using that analogy there is Christmas in July which is specifically designed to get aid to people in need who can’t wait until people suddenly generously remember them in December... so yes, in the case of schools the risk is low and the need is high so ring the bells and open the schools with 3 feet


Elegant-Rectum

Because every time we say, it will only be a little while longer, people decide that means it’s over right now and start breaking the rules, which adds a little while longer onto the wait and the cycle keeps repeating.


Lord_Ka1n

No, you can't keep blaming everything on those people. Not a single country on earth is back to normal. Not even the ones who went through what you would have liked, or the ones who went through the most extreme and tyrannical measures. No, not even New Zealand or South Korea are back to normal. The tunnel grows worldwide.


bluejayway9

Every single word of this is truth. The goalposts have been constantly moving ever since "2 weeks to flatten the curve." It's kind of crazy that some people cant understand why most people are over this shit.


Skarde

>The goalposts have been constantly moving ever since "2 weeks to flatten the curve." Did you actually think that was going to be the end of it right then? It was a pretty transparent announcement to get things started without a panic and then keep moving the goalposts.


WingyPilot

So because you're tired of it, we should all just give up then. Gotcha. Entitlement is strong with this one.


bluejayway9

Heavy projection. You're one of the people that I was talking about that doesn't understand the majority of people are over all the lockdown stuff. If you've gone outside lately you'd have noticed people are going out again and living their lives. Vaccines are here, 2020 lockdown world is over.


WingyPilot

I hate to break it to you, but real life isn't a video game. Existence of vaccine doesn't mean everyone is instantly immune. It takes time to get everyone vaccinated.


bluejayway9

I understand that. However, we're at a stage where it's only a matter of weeks before everyone can be vaccinated if they so choose and the majority of 65+ have already been vaccinated.


WingyPilot

Majority does not mean everyone. Every person should have an equal shot at the vaccine, not just most. If they refuse, that's their problem, but at least give everyone a chance. My own 75 year old mother was only able to get her first shot a couple days ago and that was after I had to hunt down an appointment for her that took a couple weeks. Virus is still rampant, especially here in Michigan. 20-50 year olds are now flooding the ICU from COVID related illness, and surprise, surprise, the trend follows exactly after the state basically opened up everything a month ago.


ZebraBurger

You’re speaking the harsh truth. Love to see it.


jpk195

“Normal” isn’t the only milestone. How about “we aren’t losing 1000 people a day”? 400k people who didn’t have to in the US died because people wouldn’t wear masks. Who else would you blame for this?


Informal-Deer

Life feels pretty normal for me in NZ, I frequently forget there's a pandemic going on out there.


Mindraker

Yeah, but NZ could (and did) sit tightly isolated from the rest of the world floating in the middle of nowhere. Much harder to do when you have huge undefended land borders with people...


Informal-Deer

Sure, I mean its still a big effort thats gone on here by border staff - we still have freight going in and out, citizens returning, essential workers coming in etc but being isolated undeniably has benefits. I'm simply replying to the above comment to say my experience in NZ is that within NZ and especially outside of the city of Auckland life has been pretty much close to normal.


Lord_Ka1n

It isn't. You just recently had another lockdown. You're just getting used to the abnormal.


Informal-Deer

I haven't been in lockdown since May last year, I'm not in Auckland. My husband has been at work as normal, my children have been at school and doing sports, birthday parties etc etc. We haven't worn masks this whole time but would happily do so if required. The most abnormal part of my life is occasionally we've been in our level 2 which for myself means I drop my children outside the gate at school instead of going in to socialise and buy a coffee, the occasional event/concert postponed and standing a bit further away from people in a line.


Pinewood74

This doesn't really hold any water anymore. The end is going to be predicated almost entirely on mass vaccinations creating a rapidly dropping case rate and that drop continuing to occur as states open up. Today we're at 60k case rate. If we go up to 70k or 80k over the next two weeks or drop to 30k or 40k, it's not going to have an impact on when "the end" is. Obviously, we will have more people die in the interim if we go up to 70k or 80k and that sucks, but how much should we sacrifice in children's development for those lives? Or in joblessness, hunger, etc? While there are some white collar WFH-able jobs are going back to work, it seems few and far between and most are doing it under relatively safe conditions (split schedules, masked, etc.) My big ass company hasn't even started talking about going back to the office. It's a similar story with basically every other company in the industry.


ImNoSheeple

Not really speaking on what is a safe social distance, but in my state, teachers were moved to the same threshold as the elderly and high risk in the line of vaccination. After receiving them, the teachers and teachers union still battled to stay at home and hybrid learning. At what point do we say it’s safe? You’re vaccinated, the younger population has already been proven to be a rare threat of severe infection. We need to seriously start thinking of the long term psychological effects it’s having on kids. Add in the fact that plenty of sectors of work have continued to work under covid restrictions and have done fine.


SapCPark

I'm a teacher, I worry every day about my students emotional health. My school wants to bring kids back so their emotional needs are met. Isolation is awful for them


ReadThisIFYouWantTo

We're starting our endzone dance on the 5 yard line. Yea, we'll probably make it, but why risk it when almost everyone will be vaccinated in a couple months?


TallRazzmatazz5

Almost everyone? What about the 25%+ who will 'never' get the vaccination?


ReadThisIFYouWantTo

The same people who say they will "never" get the vaccine are the same people who never took the virus seriously in the first place. I suspect most of those 25% will have already been infected previously. Even these people will probably eventually be "convinced" with monetary incentives and by wanting to avoid travel restrictions. Assuming the government does its job.


TallRazzmatazz5

I think the knuckleheads will get decimated by one of the nasty variants doing clean-up in 2021. They still aren't sure if those vaccinated still can't be carriers - if that is the case, the unvaccinated are in a world of hurt in 2021.


MagnetsAreFun

Recent study from CDC shows that the mRNA vaccined are highly effective against infection.


bluejayway9

That less than one percent infectious fatality rate (.3%) is sure to be a doozy for those choosing to not be vaccinated.


TallRazzmatazz5

And 10x that are long-haulers, and plenty getting hospitalized. Covid is no joke.


bluejayway9

It would be a massive failure on the part of the government to implement travel restrictions on people who choose not to be vaccinated. That would effectively make the vaccine mandatory, which I would consider a massive breach of bodily autonomy. And as you say, if most of the people who don't want to take the vaccine for whatever reason have already been infected, what exactly would be the point of punishing them for skipping out on the vaccine if they already have immunity which contributes towards herd immunity?


allbusiness512

Case law doesn't support your position. Government very much can forcibly vaccinate you. It just can't with a FDA EUA drug.


WingyPilot

Speaking of which, what does it take to full authorization, considering we're planning on vaccinating the entire USA or at least those that accept it, with only an EUA. Doesn't that kind of make full authorization a moot point? Kinda like keeping a software program in beta status forever.


allbusiness512

As far as I remember it takes multiple years of reliable safety data in order for it to become fully FDA approved. For reference to what case law I am referring to... [https://www.oyez.org/cases/1900-1940/197us11](https://www.oyez.org/cases/1900-1940/197us11) Jacobson v. MA. The conservatives can cry foul all they want, but the truth is the government very much has the power to compel you to vaccinate.


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jpk195

Does “autonomy” include not getting a disease that could kill you because the guy in the seat next to do you thinks it’s a hoax?


bluejayway9

How old are you? 70+? Because even at 70+ the IFR for covid is 5.4% according to the CDC and is below .5% for everyone under 70, getting closer and closer to zero the younger you get. This isn't something that everyone is at a high risk of dying from. Furthermore, if I were to take the vaccine, anyone who chooses not to is of no concern to me. If I choose not to take it and get sick from someone else who didn't take it, that was both of our choice to make that doesn't effect those who chose to get vaccinated.


jpk195

Your “autonomy” argument doesn’t make sense, because these decisions impact the health of other people.


BigBlueNY

Flying isn't a right, it's a privilege


bluejayway9

Start my own airline, right? And I'm sure eventually you'll be saying "grocery shopping isn't a right, it's a privilege!"


BigBlueNY

No, food is a basic human right. So much so the government pays people who can't afford to buy it. You can still drive or take a train if you really need to get somewhere domestically.


bluejayway9

Ok, so what happens when a vaccine passport or any kind of proof of vaccination is required to enter a grocery store? What if the train requires it? What if some states require it to enter their state when driving in? There's no way this would start and end at only airlines.


BigBlueNY

Ahh the slipper slope fallacy. I know a solution, get the vaccine.


[deleted]

They’re on their own


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bluejayway9

Except for the fact those under 16 are at virtually no risk of serious complications or death from a covid infection.


tencentninja

Long term complications are absolutely still a thing even with mild cases.


bluejayway9

Extremely, improbably rare in mild cases. And even very rare in more severe cases too.


tencentninja

Except not lol


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bluejayway9

Unvaccinated people will contribute to herd immunity via the infection and subsequent immunity. So I dont know what you're getting at.


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bluejayway9

Right and those under 16 and those who otherwise choose to not be vaccinated will ultimately contribute to that via natural infection and subsequent immunity.


zeeke42

That's not how efficacy numbers work at all. 1 in 10 that would have gotten infected without the vaccine will still get infected. Even the transmission rate *within* households is only 40%


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EqualSein

90% efficacy does not mean 1 in 10 exposed are going to get sick. It means for every 9 people who get the virus without the vaccine there will be 1 who gets the virus with the vaccine if they were exposed in the same way. It's also more importantly 100% effective against hospitalization and death.


[deleted]

Those under 16 fortunately don’t often have serious issues. I do hope the teachers get the jabs ASAP. I know they are in my state


WingyPilot

Everyone = 16+ that decide to take it (12+ soon hopefully). Can lead a horse to water and yadda yadda.


incady

It's because parents need to make arrangements for childcare if we stay in remote learning. Also, there's a desire to give graduating seniors and those going from elementary to middle school some in person interaction for the school year. Lots of kids are having mental breakdowns too.


SamsonFox

Please stop the "arrangements for childcare" game. Right now, at least in Ontario, schools are pretty much the only social activity for kid's allowed. Community centres, indoor playgrounds and the like are very restricted if open at all, and playdates are either prohibited or strongly discouraged. Parents are not designed to replace all social interaction for their kids. In normal times, any parent who would try to be everything for their child would be regarded as borderline creepy; now people are suddenly upset if he or she is less than enthusiastic about acting this way


incady

In the Los Angeles area where I am, schools have been closed since March, 2020. That's one whole year where the kids have not stepped foot in schools. I agree that parents should not be the only social interaction for our kids. But because of the rules, there has been no other choice. Our school district is planning the re-opening now, and the teachers union have been fighting them every step of the way. Right now, because of the 6 feet rule, they are planning to use the hybrid model, which means two days of in-person learning, and two days of remote learning. If all the students are masked, it seems reasonable that 3 feet would be fine, since only the teacher should be talking.


jpk195

The desire is fine, but it’s a risky choice. The parents I know who want their kids back in schools will talk in circles to make it sound like this will all be fine. I hope it is, but it’s still risky.


FranklinQFurter

Driving or walking to school is also “risky”


jbchi

In the US, cars kill more kids under 18 each month than COVID has in total.


TotalInstruction

My daughter doesn't have infinite time to get an education. I wish we didn't have to push to get back to school. I wish there were no pandemic. I wish I had giant bird wings and could live on a diet of Doritos and Mountain Dew. But I live in the real world, and in the real world, sitting our children in front of computer screens to try to learn is not very effective over the long term.


sicsempertyrannus_1

I mean how long is it gonna take to “wait it out”? You might be in a stable place where you can do so, but so many other people are in situations where they can’t wait for longer. It’s already been a year, being told without mercy to just “wait it out” is bad advice based on a serious lack of understanding for others.


CherrywoodXVI

Teachers not trusting the science.....how the turntables.....


ZionPelican

It’s not that they don’t trust the science- it’s that they don’t trust the building admin to keep this from being a shit show. 6 feet requires smaller classes- 3 feet allows them to fill classes as normal and it’s going to be a lot different in ways that someone who isn’t a teacher wouldn’t really understand.


CherrywoodXVI

> someone who isn't a teacher But, nevermind, I don't need to prove it to you


WingyPilot

What science? Greater distance = less risk. It's simple. 6 ft was also pulled out of their asses.


CherrywoodXVI

Hey, I think the CDC is wrong about stuff too, but they were praised as THE authority on covid rules and now people are picking and choosing based on common sense like they should've been all along


WingyPilot

Common sense says kids spread the disease as much as everyone else. Anyone who has a kid knows this. Kids spread germs. Kids don't adhere to protocols even the most behaved. They're kids. Believing otherwise is just putting your head in the sand. Naive and/or self serving agenda.


CherrywoodXVI

No disagreement here


Sumertime9

Science says schools are not hotspots of infection. My kids have been in person with full classrooms and hallways since August. Our county had 2 positive cases reported today and hasn’t had a Covid related death reported since the third week in February. It’s going really, really well.


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PepticBurrito

> all of these discussions will be moot in about 4-6 weeks They matter now and the present is important. Any unvaccinated teacher living in an area with hard to find vaccine appointments should rightly be concerned about going back to class this week with the new rules. They can catch Covid before they can find a vaccine appointment. Telling them “if you survive the next month or two, it won’t matter anymore” isn’t actually useful.


TallRazzmatazz5

Wanna bet? We got deadly variants + people not wanting vaccinations + rising rates. And you say it will be over in a month?!? Let's make it interesting....


Winchester85

Calm down. Kids have been going to school the past year around the world and in the United States. We can’t keep in living in a bubble. Where are the headlines of the major outbreaks in schools????


WingyPilot

Catch your local school postings. It's rolling closures and quarantines all the time here.


Winchester85

My local schools are in Los Angeles county and it’s still not open! Kids are really suffering over here it’s sad to see. How many kids in school have died from the coronavirus?????


WingyPilot

Umm, maybe you haven't heard, but COVID isn't about the deaths or even who is carrying the virus, it's who they give it to that is compromised that gets sick and/or die from it. Unless all kids live in a bubble, it's a problem.


Winchester85

We need to start trusting the science. There’s little to no chance that young kids even carry the virus, let alone spread it. Japan knows this China and Korea knows this and Europe knows this. You have no idea how much were stealing their the livelihood and education from our young children. The CDC wants kids back in school and says it’s safe. I think we need to stop living in our bubble of fear.


WingyPilot

Safe? So this is why they keep shutting down schools and have rolling quarantine of entire classes every week? That doesn't sound safe to me. I have two kids in middle school (were in elementary when this all started). They are struggling too, I've been unemployed because of it as well. But I also have an at risk mother that lives with me now, as well as other relatives to help that are also susceptible. I've basically resorted to teaching my kids what they need to know to not get behind, otherwise the rest can wait. Everyone is so concerned about getting back to school, it's not the education, it's government paid child care is what it is.


Inconceivable76

Sucks. And those teachers specifically got vaccinated early under the agreement it would put them back in the classroom. As soon as They got theirs, the goal posts moved.


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Midknight226

At the rate we're getting vaccines out, yeah a month or two seems reasonable. You don't need everyone to get a vaccine and rates will only decrease as more people get it.


MinnyLakes

It's all about reaching a critical mass and once it's reached things will rapidly change.


TallRazzmatazz5

That won't happen for a while. More than 4-6 weeks, anyway.


MinnyLakes

We're going to end up with about 150 to 175 million vaccinated with another probably 50 to 70 million with natural immunity from the virus at least for the time being


TallRazzmatazz5

Let's hope to hell a lot of people get vaccinated, stat! We aren't there yet. The 25% who don't... fuck 'em.


LordByron28

Dr. Fauci said we needed to reach 85% herd immunity to go back to normal. There are 330 million estimated Americans and going off of your best case scenario that would be about 240 million Americans with herd immunity. I find it incredibly unlikely that 240 million Americans will have achieved immunity in the next month or so. Even then that is 70% herd immunity and not the level we need for things to go back to normal.


MinnyLakes

We're not going to get 85% immunity it's just not going to happen I don't think anyone is predicting that. The most realistic projections I've seen suggests maybe 70 to 75.we're not just going to magically wait until 85% of people have the vaccine to go back to normal because we'll be waiting forever


LordByron28

Dr. Fauci didn't just set an arbitrary number for the fun of it. I'm sure Americans are going to do whatever they want as most have been doing this entire pandemic. In fact there were some states in the south and Midwest that didn't have to sacrifice much of anything outside of minor inconveniences. For example, the Tennessee Governor didn't implement a mask mandate or any safety regulations. Instead putting the hard work and difficult decisions on corporations and local governments. What happened was an entire cluster fuck. Our schools opened at full capacity only having to shut down multiple times and switch to hybrid mid way through. All of our sports seasons were constantly stopped with players being infected and getting others sick. Our local economy was also worse off as Food industry workers made significantly less money when they were barely making ends meet before. Retail workers all were employed but had their hours cut to bits. Our economy is worse off and more people are dead after the pandemic than before. I don't expect Americans to wait till 85% herd immunity but we are going to achieve it one way or another. At 70% herd immunity we are just going to have the constant opening and closing of schools, switches to hybrid schooling, partial reopenings of business that prevents workers from receiving the same level of pay they received pre-pandemic. All this does is create more death, more longterm headaches and stress, hurt the economy, as well as increasing the likelihood of variants.


Lord_Ka1n

> Dr. Fauci didn't just set an arbitrary number for the fun of it You sure? Because he does that a lot.


whycantiremembermyun

Haven’t the experts said that the actual infections is like 8 x the actual confirmed? So that would put us at like 240mil who have had it? On top of vaccination?


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[deleted]

Are you a scientist yourself?


barber5

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-RustinCohle-

You are letting people sprew misinformation but you call out me for civility, such nonsense


SockPuppet-57

Unfortunately keeping a mask properly fitted to elementary school students is bound to be problematic. On the other hand children should have a smaller halo of virus around them because their lungs aren't as strong as an adult. As long as they don't sneeze or cough 3 feet might be okay.


Okorela

My son has been going to school in person since September and they all wear masks every day. The kids understand it and comply really well (I've seen pictures from the classroom). And these are 4 year olds! They're doing better than my adult coworkers half the time. If it's normal to them and enforced like any other school rule, they can do it.


SockPuppet-57

That's encouraging.


tinyhandsPtape

It would be nice if Texas could have a teachers union


ReadThisIFYouWantTo

The BBQ steak sauce association has more power than the teachers unions there.


dVwYVx7WoiQk4oz

The Boston, MA teachers union is very powerful, but our steak sauce sucks.


ReadThisIFYouWantTo

The Professional Ben Franklin Impersonators Association pushed them out.


QuizzicalKat

I asked my 10-year-old how far apart the desks are in his class. He said that there are two desks pushed together and then the next two desks are a few feet away. His teacher has plastic sheeting on one side of her desk, and he told me that most of the kids just go to the other side of the desk to talk. His teacher already had Covid. He said the kids aren’t separated at all for lunch, which is kinda odd since each grade has lunch at a different time so there are plenty of tables that don’t get used at all. For recess, they are only allowed to play with kids in their own class. He said that many kids, especially the kindergartners and first graders, pull their mask down to sneeze or wear it wrong. My son doesn’t mind the mask at all. There are approximately 8,000 students in out corporation with 8 elementary schools, 2 middle, and one high school. They went back in August for 2 days a week. In late September, they started on 4 days a week with Wednesday being distance learning. By mid-October, we went to full distance learning because for multiple weeks there were over 900 students a week out and in quarantine. After Christmas break, elementary went back to 4 days a week. Middle and high at 2 days. Now all the schools are back to 4 days. We’ve been holding steady with about 100 students a week being asked to quarantine. Not a whole lot since that’s throughout all the schools. If a student tests positive in elementary, only students in the nearby desks have to quarantine. Which makes no sense considering they are crammed together at lunch and cramming together on the same playground equipment at recess. When my sons teacher tested positive, none of the students had to quarantine. So far, no students in my son’s class have caught it. Nothing about it makes sense. My son has allergies, so if he has the sniffles or is sneezing, the school makes me keep him home for 2 weeks test or no test. But when the teacher, who is close to every single student tested positive, nobody had to stay home. The school says they’re doing everything they can to keep the kids safe, but my son tells me different. Despite all that, I’m honestly not too worried. My brother closed his business for 3 months, only went to the store like once a week, and still managed to catch it. Yet when he was sick in bed for days, I was the one taking care of him, taking his temp, and bringing his food but I never got it. It’s so damn unpredictable. I’m a stay home mom so I could easily do full distance learning with my son. But he wanted to go back so I’m just kinda keeping my fingers crossed that he doesn’t get sick.


Mindraker

> sniffles or is sneezing Sneezing isn't a symptom of coronavirus.


lordhamster1977

Perhaps not, but an allergy-induced sneeze can absolutely spread snot particles great distances. Allergic sneeze + asymptomatic covid = spread.


Mindraker

So can speaking. And breathing. And singing. And not washing your hands after shitting (COVID is in fecal matter). On that note... when you smell your neighbor's fart, you are actually taking in tiny microscopic fecal pellets into your nose. Enjoy your sanitary world.


bluejayway9

I dont think you really need to worry about your ten year old. Statistically speaking, he's got a much higher chance of having bad complications from the flu than coronavirus, for perspective.


eric987235

Anybody who’s ever been in a school could have told you that.


[deleted]

Because teachers shouldn’t Believe in science?


Anti-Charm-Quark

The risk of transmission in schools is low and adults in schools have been vaccinated. There’s plenty of testing capacity. It’s time to get kids back in schools.


CorporateShrill721

So...believe the science until it’s not convenient to believe it anymore?