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albene

I don't think it's a case of WFS doing them dirty but of powercreep since the P5 Symphonies were first released. The next Symphony's characters will probably be as good if not better than the CC characters (though CC is *special*). I'd say there's a good chance they'll be buffed in future.


Bey_ran

Exactly. The answer to this is quite simply collab release timing and power creep on the progress pace of JP release timing. It is what it is, you can’t expect a free character from a 2019 collab to be awesome in 2022.


varizz16

Ah yes i forgot about the Powercreep thing, I'm just so mildly infuriated by this collab characters that getting a better treatment Indeed it is true that P5 first collab was released when many Characters in the game still not been affected by the Powercreep, but why they can't make it up on the 2nd Collab? Like introducing how you can change your Persona skill or something, they just giving a painful fight and Grasta that rarely used (Phantom Thieves Grasta) on the 2nd collab


albene

I can't say I know the intracacies of Persona's battle systems beyond the fusing of Personas. The CC characters are pretty true to how they function in their game though. Each had only 3 character specific Techs and everything else was customisable by equipping different Element, though Serge certainly didn't change Types in CC. I'll chalk that up to him and CC being special to WFS folks, especially Kato-san. ~~If we ever get a Chrono Trigger Symphony, Crono will break the game.~~


varizz16

Yeah right, CC must have that Special Spot on WFS and now i wondering if the Chrono Trigger collab happen, how broken they are considering the CC collab characters are already like this and Chrono Trigger definitely have that Special Spot on WFS Leaving That, i just hope they will do something about the P5 Characters there is a lot to improve and WFS can grab some of the special kit from the P5, like increased damage when the enemy is stunned, now they are just bad in the End Game meta, while other collab Characters can join in on the Current Meta


Bey_ran

AE is quite literally the modern spiritual successor of Chrono Cross. Chrono Cross is a special game to some of us (There are dozens of us, dozens!!), and mostly neglected/forgotten by Square, while CT is well-remembered/glorified. Personally doubt we’ll ever see a CT collab, but there’s a solid chance for more P5 (and something that improves previous collab P5 characters being included is also probable). Personally I play on JP and feel that each collaboration free character’s power level has been pretty fairly adjusted so far. A CT collab would be cool, but being here and knowing how tight-fisted Square is with some of their franchises… I wouldn’t hold my breath.


Jackleber

They weren't done dirty, they were amazing at release. Powercreep happened. Mechanics were more simple back then. Joker was a farming king with his damage VC and Mona was a free healer that carried me through most of the game. They were free 5 star characters, that was basically OP enough at the time.


varizz16

Yeah totally forgot about the powercreep, i just mildly infuriated about this, where Serge can be fully customized and change element by using certain item but not Joker, i just swallow this "hard to swallow" pill and accepting reality that Powercreep is real and scary


eternalaw_1

Joker and Morgana were on a different level during their release. Morgana was a free healer in a time when healers were scarce. He also has access to debuffs, wind physical damage and wind AOE magic damage. Joker was ridiculous in AF. Multi-hit Attack that doubles with weaknesses was exceptional before Zones came out. He was exceptional in null-element, but this has also fallen out of meta. They have been powercrept, but they weren't bad upon release. A lot of characters have been powercrept, though they were top tier when they were released: Shion was the king of DPS; Mighty and Toova were prized for their AOE nuke; Isuka's VC was top tier for boss fights; Mariel was the top tier character for a very long time. I feel old.


dreicunan

Joker is still rediculous in non-zone AF when hitting weakness.


grave1270

I think the easiest thing they could do in this regard right now is make a way to upgrade their personal weapons, just like with manifest weapons and the upcoming true manifest weapons. It seems to be the most reliable way for wfs to make older characters relevant again, other than AS and ES.


Zbox86

True Manifest Joker/Morgana???


In-dy

Yes please.


CoffeeTeaAndPancakes

Violet 255 is still amazing. Could she use a buff? Sure, but she’ll probably get one just from new Gratas that lets her use other elements


varizz16

I did mention she is still good and she really shine where she fights against the enemy that weak to earth, when fighting other elements, not so much I'm thinking that the Phantom Thieves member skills can have a buff where they can get increased damage when the enemy is stunned or downed just like in the P5, but stun status isn't possible when fighting bosses in this game Aw man, i just so infuriated seeing how the CC Characters are so good, but not the P5 Characters....


CoffeeTeaAndPancakes

I mean until Daisy came out Violet was still Earth Queen. Skull is probably the worst Thunder unit but there only are 3 others. He is decent as Blunt. CC is new and P5 is old, and that’s really the only reason.


Sukimin_Yakumo

I think the cool thing about P5 chars that is still cool is how good once more is. You hit a weakness, and you effectively repeat the skill's effect.


varizz16

That's one of selling point from the P5 Characters, but what if there are no weaknesses? And some superboss can resist everything, They are as good as a mob clearing, but not boss killer I will accept this fact, i just talking about how they are not really good when fighting the Superboss nowadays, compared to other Collab characters


SamuraiNinja7OOO

They were pretty decent when they released 2 years ago, game was still dipping its toes on multipliers higher than 200%. I don’t see a rework in the near future unless persona makes another game to colab with.


-LetGo-

Heard morgana and joker were op before chapter 25-50 when they were first released. Since many ( free ) players only had access to 4* then The later something is released, the stronger it tends to be, else no one will bother to unlock it Example I am around chapter 82 now but I haven’t unlock many units to 5* Amy Cyrus miyu as clarte guildna etc Cos Aldo not at 255 yet. And cos necoco and pizzica and ANY 1-2 decent dps / zone seem to be good enough for story mode Heard one player even used 3* to clear XGAD So 4/5 * are like luxury items for hardcore min max players


varizz16

I also experienced this, i play this game because of the P5 collab back then, i can agree they are strong and helpful back then, i beat the Dog Underground on The First Knight Episode using Joker, his triple burst is really helpful to keep the AF bar long enough to kill that Dog Powercreep is scary, that makes old characters useless today...


-LetGo-

Without power creep Non hardcore min max players May quit after getting stuck 5-50 times Especially players who didn’t manage to pull what they want from banners Some people prefer challenges Others prefer an easier time while they cruise through story mode


GreatWhatNext

The collab characters are not WFS IPs so any changes would probably require dealing with the companies who own the characters. Joker and Mona are one year away from our 2nd collab (also persona, followed a month after by tales), so of course their age would show. Mind you, they were both effing awesome when they got released. GL had yet to have grastas and Joker's VC was the staple farming tool up to 1.5 of story. Morgana had insane utility and in a world where crit wasn't guaranteed, Miracle punch was such a powerful tool.


varizz16

I'm not sure how the Collab works, but I'm sure it must be hard like talking to the Game Owner if you want to make a slightly changes, and yada-yada stuff There is little we can do for now, beside complaining about the Powercreep...


juker1865

Each of these characters were more useful at the time of their release just like with all others from gacha and sidequests.


Zeik56

They've been power crept, but they're still solid for units for a huge percentage of the game. You don't actually need to use the most top tier units for at least like 90% of the game. If you like Persona characters then just use them where you can. I still use Violet all the time and she puts in solid work. I wouldn't object to them getting buffed, but P5 already got two collabs. If they never do anything with them again I won't consider it unfair. It's pretty normal for gacha game collab units.


OpenStars

And if you don't yet have mob clearers (like Toova, etc.) then Joker is AMAZING at killing all enemies in the earlier parts of the game. Yeah I'm sure he's not great in Garulea, but even for like Toto Dreamland he's still pretty awesome, even without any grasta yet at all. Morgana admittedly doesn't have nearly the general utility, but +50% all wind damage just before AF is pretty awesome! And certainly for the early parts of the game like Ocean Palace H & VH he's still pretty OP, so tides someone over until they get other 5-stars. Which for Tales takes quite a bit of grinding, and then they aren't great at mob clearing. So...the Persona chars are still pretty great, for what they are: specialized for the early parts of the game.


Strawboyiy

Actually, I used both him and morgana while playing satellite stadium in main story- cause I missed them- and they were good enough for clearing normal mobs. With the right grasta any character can still be used which is one of the things I really like about this game.


Bulky-Tip-3824

WFS didn’t give poor treatment to Mona and Joker they were some of the best of their time. I myself used Mona for the longest time as a healer until I lucked out and got Mariel. Unless they feel like doing a third persona 5 collab (unlikely) I don’t see them getting buffed. Maybe you could make them more viable with grasta but that’s about it :/


No-List4334

Powercreep is a b*tch, from what I can see, Joker and Morgana were top tier back in 2019 when they came out, but Joker is not great nowadays and Morgana is only good for his fixed 1500 Heal nowadays. It's just the how things are, remember back in the old days Shion was a top tier DPS, freaking memelord Shion didn't used to be a walking meme. Still better than any of the Collab Characters in Priconne, that game makes Collab Characters they can't realistically kept permanently available into meh characters so that even if you miss them, you literally don't miss much. (For Example, Emilia from the Re:Zero Collab is utter garbage and Rem from the same Collab is just so replaceable by any other better permanent that the only reason anyone will use them is for Waifu.)


Rare_Law_8997

Powercreep, they are godtier when they launch, and carry me ALL the story (at the time)


In-dy

When I think back I usually slotted the skill that did -15% Everything to the enemy with Mona... It did only that. Now I have Kid, making that -25%. +25% Enerything for me, + Damage + might steal something useful... That is powercreep at its finest.


SegSignal

CC characters look great on paper but in practice they all run into some issues that make them actually hard to justify in a team. I feel like Yuri and Violet are just way more solid than any of them.